Bloody Elbow

Agreed

Why? While Shogun was necessarily “next in line” he is a good choice for a first challenger. He’s also somebody who could put an end to the hyped Machida Era in it’s early going. He has fast, accurate, looping punches which I think counter Machida’s style very well. Even still, I wouldn’t expect Mauricio to keep the fight on the feet too long. He’s often mixed in take downs very well, even attempting some leglocks on Liddell early in their fight. On top of his stand-up prowess, he very well might be the only jiujitsu practitioner in the UFC LHW division who could submit Lyoto.

I'm the biggest shogun fan out there

and I really think he has a chance against machida, but I also don’t like the idea of him going for the LHW belt just yet. he needs at least another win at a big name in order to get a belt. this is crazy, if this turns out to be true, ufc is making this LHW division a circus…

maybe if they bring back soccer kicks.

MonkeyCHops - May 28, 2009 reply

and allow roids too right?

sure, shogun just can’t compete without the roids and soccer kicks… I love how some mma fans know the fighters so well, just like you thought rashad was going to give lyoto a beating right?and now to so many he’s ‘unstoppable’… makes me laugh.

You can speculate all you want about that but there’s nothing to indicate that it is true. Shogun had several impressive fights in the US before his PRIDE run as well as in some of the later PRIDE and UFC shows. There’s nothing to suggest he’s not the fighter he was before. Even considering that he gassed in his more recent fights, that has been marked down and crossed off. I don’t see that being an issue for him in the future. Steroids don’t give you good cardio either, by the way.

keyword: 'sarcasm'...

Soccer kicks would require Machida to be on his back with Shogun standing over him. I really don’t see that happening.

Day Man - May 28, 2009 reply

Time to feed the Dragon.

Ubernoober - May 28, 2009 reply

Could it be….Tito?

*scurries off

Yeah, you better run.

*runs back to yell

Machida vs Babalu!! Title unification match!!!!

*hauls ass

Winner gets King Mo

After Coleman and Chuck fighting Tito would be the next logical step. Still Tito might not be old enough for the Shogun beats up the elderly tour. :D

who me - May 28, 2009 reply

I like that. :D

But they could get Randy to come down to LHY, and that would most definitely continue the path of Shogun tearing through the +40 demo.

Dooda - May 28, 2009 reply

I’m confused as to the situation.

Rashad and Rampage will be TUF 10 coaches so they have to meet (December?)
Rampage was promised first title crack (Sep.?)
Shogun is being courted for first title defense (Sep also?, Rampage waits till Dec.)

What if Rashad beats Rampage? I don’t wanna see Machida/Evans II.

Nothing is official in terms of matchups other than Rashad vs. Rampage in December, so who knows what the UFC is trying to put together.

Well this is getting messy.

who me - May 28, 2009 reply

Nothing’s official. Machida’s site still says he’s fighting Rampage in September.

Spent the whole day getting excited for Rampage fighting Machida and Rashad to round out the year but I can’t imagine what other big fight at light heavyweight there would be for Shogun.

who me - May 28, 2009 reply

Shogun vs Machida is the best fight out there. And the newwwwwwwwww UFC LHW champ …. !

Pfft. Machida by absolute destruction if it’s true.

False. Machida has not a dynamic and versatile striker like Shogun. Shogun also has a much better ground game than Machida.

“But how would Machida take him down?”
Easy, Shogun uses trips and body locks and does not go for traditional shoots, which is what Machida defends well against. Naka and Soko both took him down with trips and it can be done. Plus Shogun has taken down every opponent he’s wanted to. This is the most overlooked part of his game

“But Shogun is too wild, he’ll get picked apart”
False, he worked with Lucas Franca, former Olympic boxer, and greatly improved his defense and head movement in a short amount of time as was evident by his last fight. Unpredictable kick to the heart:

“But he’ll gas”
Well he fought Forrest with a torn acl and couldn’t do much cardio training. He then fought Coleman after 2 surgeries and 16 months off. He looked in much better shape vs Chuck especially considering he’s gassed in the first in both fights prior. Not too mention Sergio Cunha, made it an emphasis that he improve his cardio in training and Shogun is going to continue working with him.

Shogun offers far more challenges than anyone else right now. It’s gametime.

Meant to say how would he take Machida down

Please send your analysis to the Vegas bookmakers. Hopefully it will drop the line and I can keep up my streak of getting rich betting on Lyoto.

Day Man - May 28, 2009 reply

If this fight is even close to even I’ll sell everything I own and bet it on Machida

So a guy manages not to gas for a whole five minutes, and you declare his cardio problems over.

Lyoto has shown suspect cardio too.

And no I didn’t declare it over but to ignore those factors is naive. Cardio is probably the easiest thing to fix when it’s your main emphasis. Shogun was known for stamina and had run marathons. Two fights with injuries and that’s all forgotten

Um, what? I understand you’re a Shogun fan, but Machida gassed when, exactly? And you don’t really believe Machida would’ve taken over 14 minutes to put down Coleman, do you?

I’ve seen him breathing pretty heavy.

To me, breathing heavy does not = gassing

His performance has not suffered…..when it does then you can call it gassing

soadtrails - May 29, 2009 reply

Machida gasses in the third round, not the third minute like Shogun.

Rashad should have taken that fight deeper, tough to fight a guy who is so sound when he’s fresh.

I can imagine Machida’s style being more draining than it looks like especially now that he’s pushing the action hard and isn’t taking time off to rest/prance around.

bigweeze - May 28, 2009 reply

3'rd round of the Nakamura fight.

Kaz was in better cardio shape, and started scoring with dirty boxing/ judo trips. Hell, Kaz even landed a lunging hook (which Machida has said is the hardest shot he’s eaten inside the Octagon).

He looked pretty tired at the end of the Tito fight as well.

ElliotMatheny - May 30, 2009 reply

Good info and breakdown, gunranger.

seriously

some ppl just can’t recognize what an amazing fighter shogun is. but I still hope he doesn’t fight for the title just yet, just too soon for that.

is this a joke

that’s a pretty bad breakdown

yngjzy - May 28, 2009 reply

I’m not talking about the list above, I’m talking about ppl not giving shogun his props…

Is your post a joke? Gunranger went into detail on Shogun’s style of TDs and how those have been successful against Machida. He talked about the reasons for Shogun’s cardio, and Shogun’s new boxing coach that’s already made a difference.

You can continue nuthugging fighters while not offering anything meaningful for discussion.

I disagree. He still tends to be aggressive in nature, and we all saw how playing back won’t win you a matchup vs. Machida when Evans couldn’t do squat. Machida has a speed advantage against everyone, and speed kills.

iiowyn - May 28, 2009 reply

Best Kung Fu movie

ever.

Riney - May 28, 2009 reply

What film is this?

rainmaker6 - May 28, 2009 reply

Kung Fu Hustle

really a must see.

Kid Nate - May 28, 2009 reply

great reference :)

fuzzy wuzzy - May 29, 2009 reply

Sooooo rec’d. I can’t wait for Lyoto to bust out the Buddhist Palm.

Why is this green?

Most of it is false on its face.

thetakeover - May 28, 2009 reply

Kind of what I’m saying.

re: Takedowns

Probably the best angle for Shogun in this fight. I wouldn’t be surprised if he put Machida on his back at least once in the fight. Still, no one’s shown an ability to put Machida down and keep him there.

re: Shogun’s wildness/aggressive nature

Yes, he looked much better against Liddell than in fights past. Still, he throws his strikes wildly and is prone to dropping his hands. Just look at your GIF. He starts with a right hook and his left hand drops near his waist.

re: Gas tank

I agree that Shogun’s cardio issues were overstated following the Griffin and Coleman fights. However, he’s never traditionally had GOOD cardio and him going 4 minutes with Chuck doesn’t really do anything to change that opinion.

Regardless of your feelings on these talking points, none of them address the real issue. What does Shogun bring specifically to a fight with Machida? How will he handle the in-out karate style? How will he overcome Machida’s ability to exploit his opponent’s weaknesses (and Rua has a handful)?

As for the matchmaking, I’m not sure what else the UFC could do here. If we accept the fact that Rampage wants the TUF role/Evans fight, I’m not sure anyone else has a better argument for a title shot. Someone mentioned Henderson earlier, but he still has to get through Bisping and I’m not sure a two month turnaround for a September fight is in his best interests. No one else comes close.

Mike Fagan - May 29, 2009 reply

…him going 4 minutes with Chuck doesn’t really do anything to change that opinion.

That being said, you are absolutely right about Joe Silva’s options. Hendo would’ve been awesome, but there’s no time. I officially rescind my criticism of this matchup – it’s the best they have with Rampage fighting Rashad and Forrest fighting Anderson.

This could work. I don’t know if it’s a smart decision by Rampage, as he’s giving up a title shot to fight a Top 3-4 WW in the world instead in a non-title fight.

I figured Shogun would be the next guy to fight for the title after Machida-Rampage, so moving up his shot doesn’t bother me. I hope Shogun is really at 100% and his conditioning is top notch. It could be a great fight.

Rampage-Evans will also be a great fight. The winners of each of these 2 fights will also make a great title fight in early 2010.

Regardless of how the UFC plays their cards here, within a year or two most of the major contenders will have fought their big fights, i.e. Rampage/Evans, Rampage/Machida, Shogun/Machida, Shogun/Anderson, etc.

It could work, and if could potentially set up a lot of fights at the top of the division depending on the winners and losers. Shogun comes in, loses, and Rampage loses… you have a rematch from the PRIDE-era in place. Evans wins Machida loses, you have a rematch. Machida wins, Rampage wins, you have a Rampage-Machida matchups, and could push a Evans-Shogun matchup.

I wish they’d sign Rogerio, he deserves to be in all of these discussions.

if he gets a couple more big wins

maybe they’ll bring him in.
The biggest problem Little Nog has is he won’t fight Babalu and he won’t fight Feijao, those are the two biggest heads he could put on his wall outside the UFC.
Maybe WVR will hook up Rogerio with King Mo, but they need to build that one for at least a year.

Kid Nate - May 28, 2009 reply

Rogerio wouldn’t fight Machida or Anderson either.

Rogerio would be about the eight best LHW in the UFC.

LOL, here we go. Who would you rank above Rogeiro? Honestly.

Sokoudjou. =P

Agreed leland

Rogerio didn’t sign with the UFC to do boxing where he ended up with the bronze at the Pan Am games then Affliction came with a better offer. He’ll be there soon enough and a contender at that.

I can see some guys being ranked above him, but not 8. 8 is a huge number. I’d put Rogeiro in the mix though. Give him an easier bout, then a tough one, then put him in contention.

Machida, Rampage, Evans, Griffin, Shogun, Jardine, Wanderlei.

Guess where I got those from.

Rec’d for good comeback

J. B. Maddox - May 28, 2009 reply

Rogerio would shit on the collective corpse pile formed by Wanderlei, Forrest, and Jardine.

People said Shogun would do that to Forrest , too. And Chuck to Jardine. Wanderlei, maybe.

a) I’m not even going to get into the Shogun being injured for that fight. Ooops, I just did. Regardless, Forrest has a decent ground game and capitalized on a very tired Shogun who won the first 2.5 rounds of that fight.

b) I thought Jardine would win along with a lot of people.

c) Not maybe.

I still like my comeback – the most I’ll give you is that he would be seventh. He has to beat one of the guys above him, to me, in order to move up.

Wandy is not in LHW anymore, and he would match up well against anyone else. he would not fight Machida or Anderson because he trains with them.

I like your s/n. Mach’s knees to the face+Colored tight pants=Ahhhhhoki

Sakurai’s no joke himself.

Agreed.

Jardine has nothing on Minotoro. His boxing isn’t better nor is his ground game. He’s lost 3 of 5 and one of his wins was a split to Vera where a lot of people thought he lost.

Same for Forrest. Minotoro has better standup and ground game.

Honestly, Rogerio won’t beat Machida, but he could potenitaly beat Evans, Rampage, Shogun, Jardine, and Wanderlei. Jardine, Wanderlei, and Griffin are pretty high percentage wins in my mind.

I’d like to see some of those fights but I don’t think he would be more than a 60-40 favorite over any of those guys (he might be 60-40 against Wanderlei) but Forrest and Jardine are two of the most difficult matchups stylistically of any of the light heavies. I don’t see Minotoro as more than a coin flip against either of them (I’d be laying money on either of those guys if its an even money situation).

Day Man - May 28, 2009 reply

That’s a lot of faith to have in a guy that got knocked out by Soko.

subo, this is why people laugh at some of the shit you say.

Basing the assumption that Rogerio isn’t above 8 of the top LHW in the UFC is basically coming down to the fact that he was KO’d by Sokoudjou? Give me a break. That’s the most absurd thing I’ve heard today. It just goes to show me that you need to watch more MMA than just the UFC.

Ok, here goes

I’m not basing my opinion (not an ‘assumption’) that Rogerio wouldn’t crack the top echelon of the UFC LHW division because he got KO’ed by Soko – although that sure didn’t help. I just think that if Jardine has to wear the Alexander loss around his neck for all eternity, it’s only fair.

His biggest win was over Hendo in 2005, and the only ranked LHW he’s faced since then was The Janitor (who also has beaten Rogerio, along with Shogun and Soko). The USA Today told me he was the eighth best LHW in the world, and that the top seven were in the UFC. I simply agreed.

I think any guy that shines outside the UFC assumes the title of ‘best LHW/MW/etc not in the UFC’ and thus receives a bump as a result (see Lawler, Robbie and Aoki, Shinya). Seeing as how the LHW is the division Zuffa dominates the most, I simply give guys like Jardine credit for having faced and beaten tougher competition (in a cage with drug testing).

I think he’d be competitive in all the fights you mention – but to put him as a favorite over anyone on that list is a reach. Rogerio hasn’t beaten ANYONE in the last FOUR YEARS that is within sneezing distance of any of those guys (and no, pre-steroid growth Overeem doesn’t count, either).

It just goes to show me that most people that write about MMA are piss scared of being tagged as ‘UFC pawns’ or ‘Zuffa apologists’ and thus bend over backwards so as not to appear to be. I’m not particularly concerned with the opinions of those that read me, so you won’t catch me artificially inflating a fighter just because he’s not in the UFC.

Machida, Rampage, Evans, Griffin,~~Shogun, Jardine, Wanderlei.~~

Jardine, Shogun and Wanderlei all have a much more complete resume (and Alexander was just Jardine’s Soko)

Jardine’s resume is more complete than Rogerio’s?
Jardine:
Chuck
Forrest
Vera
Wilson
vs
Mezger
Vlad
Naka x2
Overeem x2
Sakuraba
Hendo

I consider Chuck and Forrest to be better than anyone Rogerio’s ever beaten. Look, Rogerio is a helluva fighter with a wide array of skills that could make noise in the UFC’s LHW division. But until he does, I consider those guys above him.

forrest was no one when jardine beat him

Hahahaha...

Subo is always there when you need a good laugh.

So....

Everyone in the UFC’s LHW division is better than Rogerio? Or just the guys you pick and choose? Obviously this is all opinion but Lil Nog’s resume is as strong as anyone who has never fought in the UFC, excluding Fedor.

The top six of the UFC’s LHW division are better than Rogerio (seven if you count Wandy).

Wandy today isn’t better than Rogerio in my mind. No way.

Machida, Rampage, Evans, Griffin, Shogun, Jardine, Wanderlei.

I’d take Rogerio today over Jardine, Wanderlei, and Griffin.

And I take the opposite side of that bet.

Notice I didn’t insult you in disagreeing with you there.

no disrespect subo but i agree with leland here. hopefully we’ll get to find out who is right sometime soon

Hey man, you don’t disrespect me by disagreeing with me. You do it by acting like you’re the only one with an informed opinion.

I’d love to see Rogerio in the UFC because he sure is top 20 and I want all those guys in the UFC.

I just don’t think he’d have the same success he has had at Triple AAA.

LOL, you consider…

I consider your ideas on Rogerio completely baseless. If you actually think that list of fighters is above him skillwise… you’ve been out in the sun too long. I can see MOST of those choices. If you had said top 5, I’d agree right now, but top 8 guys, no way.

I think you simply have less respect for Jardine and Forrest than I do. And please, if he’s got a win over a guy that was a top 10 LHW other than Dan Henderson in APRIL 2004, I’m all ears. Jardine and Forrest have won some BIG fights since then. He hasn’t.

I think overeem would be a top 10 if he hadnt moved up. no?

I actually don’t think so – he went on to lose to Arona and Rua after losing to Lil Nog, and I don’t believe he’s fought at 205 since. It’s possible he’d be a fringe top 10 LHW, but he lost his last three fights at the weight class. Purely a judgment call, though.

The best LHW he ever beat was Belfort

Close…

Sammy Morgan! Kidding.

Does Shogun really deserve the shot?

INGO B - May 28, 2009 reply

He’s not any less deserving than Rashad or Thales.

???

Rashad deserved his title shot against Forrest.

By KOing Chuck, which Shogun did also? Plus, he lost to Tito…

Rashad did it last September, and the fight with Tito was a draw, 2 years ago. I didn’t say Shogun wasn’t deserving (not given these circumstances).

Yes, and Nick Diaz didn’t really beat Gomi either. I’m not going by arbitrary records. Rashad Evans lost to Tito Ortiz. It’s arguable whether or not he even beat Bisping (I think he did but others have argued otherwise), and his victories over Hoger and others were minimalistic victories at best. Point being that Rashad didn’t earn his title shot. But as I’ve said in other discussions in the past, I don’t necessarily believe that all title shots should be given exclusively to #1 contenders. Champions should be defending their belts regularly, even if the guy has some losses. Similarly, I don’t think it’d be a huge issue to give Rampage a title shot before Rashad, even if Rashad wins their fight (which he won’t).

LOL at your logic. Rashad earned his shot. He never lost a fight before his title shot in the UFC. And few will be upset of Shogun gets his shot, even though he has. His loss to Griffin doesn’t exclude him from ever getting a title shot in the future.

Like I said, Rashad lost to Tito Ortiz. I think that disqualifies somebody as a contender much more than if Rampage loses to Rashad. Shogun’s resume makes him much more deserving than Rashad.

Like I said, Rashad lost to Tito Ortiz.

Really? UFC.com says otherwise.

I would love to see

Lyoto destroy Rua so people can stop blaming his injuries on his post-Pride fights.

dnevil001 - May 28, 2009 reply

UPDATE

According to MMAEruption’s Fanpost, USAToday is quoting White as saying the Rampage-Machida fight in September is not happening:

With Jackson out of the picture, the new champion’s next opponent likely will be named today or tomorrow, White said. A report on Machida’s website that he will be fighting at UFC 103 in September is not true, White said.

This leaves the door wide open for Shogun vs. Machida. Rampage won’t be fighting a title fight in September according to White’s quote, and from what we can gather from this quote, Machida’s next opponent will be named today or tomorrow. Also, Shogun is in town talking with White as evident from Dana’s Twitter photos.

Christ, this is sloppy.

I KNEW IT!!!!

-Chandler

Quoting ‘Friends’ should equal instant ban. Who do I see about making this a rule?

How did you know who Chandler was? Closet Friends watcher? Could you BE anymore obvious? :P

I can name like three members of *NSYNC too – doesn’t mean I was a fan. My brain is like flypaper, there’s all kind of shit in there I had no intention of remembering when I encountered it.

“Lies….ALL LIES!!!!”

Bye bye bye to this conversation

lmfao rec’d

Kaleb Kelchner - May 28, 2009 reply

Name them by name?

MonkeyCHops - May 28, 2009 reply

Joey Fatone, Justin Timberlake, Lance Bass. My brain is a very stupid creation.

Somewhere Chirs Kirkpatrick just killed himself because he didn’t even get remembered in a joke about remembering Nsinc

Day Man - May 29, 2009 reply

And there are several dead insects stuck to it

So 1st title shot is Shogun/Machida
and Rashad/Rampage is December.

If Machida beats Shogun, and Rashad beats Rampage the UFC is screwed.
What then? Forrest vs. Machida?
Now if Machida wins and Rampage wins. OK. Shogun wins and Page or Evans wins. OK
So the UFC has 3/4th chances of coming out with another solid fight.

Yeah, but the UFC can still hype the Shogun vs. Rampage rematch. But you’re right. Nobody will see Evans already getting another rematch vs. Machida, so someone will have to earn their way into the title picture. Griffin could sneak in if he beats Anderson, but he may not even need to.

Shogun/Rampage would make for a great rematch in the UFC. Luiz Cane may be a wildcard in all of this. Also, I wonder if Randy can drop down to 205 at his age. So many choices to ponder about.

Yes, I talked to some people about this, and Cane’s name has come up. While he probably isn’t “a really big fight” in the context of this rumor, down the road, he could be in the mix.

the only tough scenario is if Machida and Rashad win the next fights. If so, the UFC likely needs to have Rashad win 1 more before getting a rematch (if it’s still Machida). So they’ll need to find one fight after Shogun for Machida, and before a potential Rashad rematch.

Agreed

Anderson Silva!

Ok that’s out of the question but I can dream can’t I? But there’s a few more likely candidates. Maybe Dan Henderson? What about Forrest if he beats Anderson Silva (hey crazier things have happened). Rich Franklin? That’ll be like Jan 2010 so a lot of stuff will go down between that and now. They’ll be someone…

Stefan Manojlovic - May 29, 2009 reply

The UFC could hype a Richard Simmons vs. Mr. Rogers fight, that doesn’t mean anyone wants to watch it.

I think that by “hype the fight” Leland means that they could generate interest for it through promos and such, especially among the casual fans. And I agree with him on this; the tape on those two is spectacular.

Yeah, I understand what he meant, I just don’t think that matchup would be as interesting as some of the others that are possible. Realistically anyone in the top 6 or 7 of the divison you could hype, who among Griffin, Rashad, Lyoto, Rampage, Franklin, and Shogun doesn’t have a great highlight reel?

“Interesting” fights are for the hardcores, like us. Marketable fights are for profit. You’re right that there’s more interesting fights, but not necessarily more profitable ones, so all things being more or less equal, it’s not a terrible fight and one that would sell.

Mr. Rogers by beatdown.

iiowyn - May 28, 2009 reply

There would be a new fashion wave sweeping the MMA world- instead of Aoki pants, Simmons shorts!

Yargh… I still think Evans can take that matchup. He just fought an awful fight with a bad gameplan, I think he is smarter than how he fought, plus there are plenty of technical and strategic errors he can go back and work on.

Credit to Machida for putting him out of his comfort zone though.

It would be wild to see Shogun win just for the following year of fights. Can you imagine the matchups with Shogun, Machida, Forrest, Anderson, Rashad, Rampage all gunning for the belt? That would probably be the most top-heavy a division has ever been.

bigweeze - May 28, 2009 reply

I see Rua going down the exact same way Thiago did. In a massive and unprecedented ball of flames. There’s nothing in Rua’s game that tells me he’s strategic enough to get into Machida’s game and inflict damage, unless he can get Machida on his back. But he had a lot of trouble getting Forrest on his back, and then once there he didn’t really do anything. Rua has a submission game, but it’s certainly not the slickest. Machida will easily be able to avoid it…I think…

Dooda - May 28, 2009 reply

Agreed.

And I’m a big Shogun fan too. I’d rather he face someone legit and tough right now then to get a title shot.

Dooda - May 28, 2009 reply

It might end up the same way, but Shogun is more fluid than Thiago (not as flatfooted), bigger/stronger/faster with a better chin. It at least makes for a slightly more even matchup, although Machida is better than he was back then.

bigweeze - May 28, 2009 reply

Shogun is worlds better than Silva – I agree with your analysis.

Shogun is bigger and stronger than Thiago? Not sure about that.

Just look at them. He’s also worlds better at striking and on the ground.

Shogun Deservers More Respect Around Here...

I pretty much never agree with you on anything.

But rec’d the hell out of this.

If you WERE an MMA fan in 2005, you were jocking Shogun’s dick, no questions asked. He busts up his knee, loses a fight to a guy now ranked as a Top 3-5 LHW, and looks lackluster in his first fight back after almost 18 months and suddenly he’s not worth getting a title shot?

What the shit ever.

Applejack McNeil - May 28, 2009 reply

Gotta disagree with you here

It’s not 2005 anymore and he isn’t fighting in PRIDE, he has not done enough to earn a title shot in the UFC yet. While I agree that he deserves more respect than he is getting a win over the corpses of Mark Coleman and Chuck Liddell does not earn you a title shot in a division where the top dogs are Lyoto Machida, Rampage Jackson, Rashad Evans, and Forrest Griffin. Another good performance against someone like Cane or Jardine and we can talk, but not two wins over a couple of guys whose combined age is over 80.

Rec’d

If you shit on anybody, subo will… REC’D

Yeah, like when Supremacy shit all over Trigg yesterday.

So you feel Shogun (a PRIDE star) earned a title shot by beating two over the hill fighters and that Rogerio (Affliction/Jungle Fight) could beat all but four or five of the UFC’s LHW’s? Methinks I sense a pattern.

Earned a title shot? No. I don’t think he earned it at all, but the UFC has been pretty clear that you don’t necessarily need to beat the top dog to be given a title shot.

Rogerio could be at least a top 5 LHW in the UFC, not a #9 LHW in the UFC.

Leland Roling - May 29, 2009 reply

Evans was hotshotted to Griffin after his KO of Liddell, Shogun doesn’t get afforded the same courtesy?

Shogun’s only loss in the UFC came at the hands of Griffin and has already beaten Rampage. Regardless of what you believe, what happens OUTSIDE the Octagon does matter. Or do you forget that Rampage got a title shot after beating Marvin freakin’ Eastman based solely on the fact that he’d already beaten Liddell before.

Shogun has two blemishes on his record in the past 4 years. A freak accident against Coleman and a tough loss against Griffin. Beyond that, he’s beaten Rampage, Lil Nog, Arona, Randleman, Overeem (x2), and Liddell.

You can’t tell me you’d be up in arms if Fedor signed a Zuffa contract and was given the winner of Mir/Lesnar.

Applejack McNeil - May 28, 2009 reply

Same with guys like Spider Silva and Big Nog. What they did outside the octagon was more important in getting them a title shot then what they did inside (beating Chris Leben and Heath Herring respectively in their only UFC fight prior to their title shots).

Day Man - May 29, 2009 reply

If it’s unprecedented, how is it just like something that happened before…?

Sorry, struck me as funny. Carry on.

I think you guys are underestimating Mauricio. He’s definitely gotten hurt on the feet before but not knocked out. It’s not like he has a habit of taking big shots, which cannot be said for Thiago Silva. Even in his fights against Drwal and Mendes he got repeatedly tagged. Shogun’s been hurt once and that was in his fight against Rogerio Nogueira. I’m not saying it’s 100% but I feel like Shogun should be a -100 favorite. He has superior ground skills and enough experience in competitive striking to not get finished on the feet by Machida. I think Machida’s only avenue for winning would be via decision, as I’m not sure Mauricio has worked his cardio up to 5 rounds yet. But 5 rounds with a slow-paced and cautious Machida would be more possible.

The knock on Shogun isn’t his chin, it’s his style. Stylistically, he’s aggressive, and that doesn’t bode well for Machida’s opponents. I really don’t see how he beats Machida. Superior ground skills is stretching it, they may almost both be on even keel in that respect. Experience in competitive striking doesn’t matter when fighting Machida. Machida’s short accurate punches can devastate a forward moving Shogun, regardless of his past. Rashad hadn’t been KO’d before, but it happened.

Shogun placed 5h in the Mundials and won the SA BJJ Championship. Machida is a “black belt” in a similar fashion to Kenny Florian. Obviously they both have great ground skills but Machida to Shogun would be similar to comparing Florian to Penn. I’ll certainly concede that Mauricio’s aggressive, looping punches make him seem tailor-made for Machida and he’d certainly take some shots en route to a victory (or a loss.) Look at Rua’s win over Chuck. That was a “wild” punch but it landed square on Liddell’s jaw. Even when it’s a haymaker, there’s still accuracy involved. I don’t think he’d finish Machida either, but watching any of Lyoto’s fights you can see that he leaves himself open to big, looping counter-punches which Mauricio has.

Rashad hadn’t been KO’d before, but it happened.

True, however, Rashad hasn’t been in there with the same caliber of strikers that Shogun has in his career.

The best all-around striker Rashad faced until Machida might have been Bisping.

Shogun has faced Sobral, Rampage, Rogerio, Overeem, Arona, Diabate, and Randleman. Now, all are not great strikers but the guys that aren’t have legitimate power.

FlyByKnight - May 28, 2009 reply

And Rashad is also an amateur-level striker, which Mauricio is not.

Shogun should be favourite? Sorry but I can’t take anything you post seriously after that.

StevenGiles - May 28, 2009 reply

This would be an epic fight between two friends. I love both guys but my man-love for Machida, which is going on about six years now, makes me pick him.

FlyByKnight - May 28, 2009 reply

well, if it wasnt gonna be rampage or rashad, who else could it be? jardine isnt getting it. cane fighting machida would be a disaster.

nigelzackit - May 28, 2009 reply

Mark Coleman

Riney - May 28, 2009 reply

I truly hope that Shogun didn’t take this fight…I feel like he needs another good fight or two even under his belt before he gets into contention. Beating Chuck shouldn’t = title shot any more. But I don’t care, I’d love to see Machida pick Shogun apart.

Kaleb Kelchner - May 28, 2009 reply

I worry that Shogun is probably over matched in this fight. It would be amazing if he and Rampage both won though.

MonkeyCHops - May 28, 2009 reply

Anderson/Griffin winner v machida

jks9202 - May 28, 2009 reply

Machida will never fight Anderson

For enough money, almost anyone would fight. You could probably put on a Nog-Nog match with enough cash.

Ed Soares said they would fight, but the price tag would be about $100 million.

iiowyn - May 28, 2009 reply

Yeah, highly unlikely, but never say never.

Wrong

If Machida fights Anderson for the money it means he’s lost his ‘mushi’. And he’d get destroyed because of that.

rainmaker6 - May 28, 2009 reply

Maybe I’m cynical, but I don’t buy that.

I said this the other day

But it would be a while before this fight would generate enough interest for Dana to promise these guys enough money to do it. Anderson is coming off 2 lackluster performances and was never a draw anyways and Lyoto is still relatively unknown to the casual fans. Dana wouldn’t offer these guys an extra million a piece for a fight that might only draw 400,000 PPV buys. These guys are both going to need to put in a couple exciting performances to make this a big money fight that everyone wants to see.

That’s why I said “unlikely” three posts up.

Guys Guys

It’s Shogun vs Tito… God that’ll be sweet.

poundnground - May 28, 2009 reply

That’d be a “really big fight”.

Somebody misunderstood

Dana said he was talking to Shogun about a fight with someone who has a “really big head.”

http://insidefights.com/2009/05/28/machida-vs-rua-possible-for-september/

LOL

Score.

poundnground - May 28, 2009 reply

Shogun vs. Machida is on:

UPDATE: We can now 100% confirm that Lyoto Machida vs. Mauricio "Shogun" Rua is the plan for the next light heavyweight title fight. We haven’t pinned down an exact date or card, but it will take place in September or October.

MMAEruption - May 28, 2009 reply

Please be October. I want to see this in person.

FlyByKnight - May 28, 2009 reply

Yay, confirmation. I can stop checking for updates every 30 minutes now.

Ubernoober - May 28, 2009 reply

So you beat Chuck Liddell and you’re next for a title shot? I wanted Shogun to get at least 1 more fight before he faces the Dragon Ghost.

poundnground - May 28, 2009 reply

Meh, I’m not getting too bent out of shape over this. This is Shogun we’re talking about here, not some random guy just out of the regional circuit. If this fight takes place in October, it means that Shogun will have had 5 months to get his cardio in order. This is also #1 Vs #5 (according to the Meta-Rankings), a very respectable matchup, since #2, #3, and #4 are all booked in different fights.

Ubernoober - May 28, 2009 reply

so , it looks like no one is giving forrest a chance against anderson, otherwise, he would be the perfect choice for a december fight against machida with a win over anderson. i kinda liked what forrest had to say last night during that amir/burger king ad. thats it’s not always about who’s the best fighter, it’s about who’s willing to give it everything the got for just 1 night…or something like that. :)

bdw - May 28, 2009 reply

i dont see forrest winning but if he does, then he’s all but guaranteed a shot if evans wins.Of course if Rampage wins and demands his shot then it seems that Forrest will have to wait for the machida-rampage winner.

i would love for anderson to face machida but with what only 3 fights left on his contract including Forrest.I see him facing the Hendo-Bisping winner and then going out with a big light heavy fight(maybe machida does anderson a favor as a farewell fight) or who knows maybe Shogun,Rampage, or Wanderlei(since he’s at war with anderson apparently.

i got a curious question.How does everybody here rank the the elite light heavies if you had to:
i got it
1.Machida
2.Anderson
3.Rampage
4.Evans
5.Griffin
6.Shogun(tho at times his skill can be a #1 or as bad as washed up crocop ;)

anderson’s a wild card and really he should be #6 but he’s always been a big middleweight so i can see him having trouble moving up.
the griffin fight will clear a lot of things up

1. Jon Jones
(huge gap)
Everyone else

Not to mention Cantwell and Cane. What an absurdly deep division.

1. Machida

2. Rampage
3. Spider

4. Shogun
5. Griffin
6. Jardine
7. Evans

Day Man - May 29, 2009 reply

Sounds like I’m not the only one that doesn’t have Rogerio top seven. I wonder if you guys will also get shit about how laughable your opinions are. I hope not, but it’d be more fair.

Fuck it – I’m smoking a bowl

Probably because those rankings only include current UFC LHWs.

Leland Roling - May 29, 2009 reply

The original question was ‘how do you guys rank elite light heavies’, not ‘elite UFC light heavies’

Then those people as crazy as you, subo.

Leland Roling - May 29, 2009 reply

Ain’t no way.

haha give Jon Jones one more year and he’ll definately be up there,give him sometime to shore up his defense n he’ll be on a tear

Well I got my wish. Yay.

Sam Cupitt - May 28, 2009 reply

i dont get what’s not to like.
we get to see some “black on black crime”
and a fight between machida and a guy who arguably has a chance 2 beat himmand who was best in the world only 3 yrs ago

exactely. this turned out perfectely.

plus the belt doesn’t have to get put on hold d/t TUF.

And to all the people who say so and so doesn’t deserve a title shot… you can’t freakin do that w/o saying you who feel is more deserving. i’ve all relative.

fuzzy wuzzy - May 29, 2009 reply

Near 200 posts had me curious

Of course 50% of this thread is arguments with freaking Subo.

Take some advice, you should never argue with an idiot, they’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

bignerd - May 29, 2009 reply

And now I’m an idiot.

Sorry

Maybe that was a little harsh. You were fighting a good fight up until this gem.

It just goes to show me that most people that write about MMA are piss scared of being tagged as ‘UFC pawns’ or ‘Zuffa apologists’ and thus bend over backwards so as not to appear to be. I’m not particularly concerned with the opinions of those that read me, so you won’t catch me artificially inflating a fighter just because he’s not in the UFC.

An argument stolen from Rush Limbaugh on Donovan McNabb

“I think what we’ve had here is a little social concern in the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well,‘’ Limbaugh said. "There is a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn’t deserve. The defense carried this team.

bignerd - May 29, 2009 reply

Lemme explain (further)

I hate Rush Limbaugh – I listen to his show just so I can feel secure in loathing him, and he never disappoints.

Limbaugh was full of shit – McNabb is a perennial Pro Bowler that led his team to four straight NFC Championship games (and was within a Tom Brady 4th quarter drive of winning a Super Bowl). Also, McNabb is already competing against the best in the world at his sport, so it’s not sheer projection to say ’he’d do x in the Big Leagues’. Rogerio’s strength of schedule over the last three years simply doesn’t support the argument that he’s a top five LHW, so there must be some other motivation to say ‘oh yeah he’d come into Zuffa and kick Jardine’s overrated ass’.

I think that people that give a shit what other people think feel obligated to hold some views just for the sake of maintaining a false sense of balance. While Leland is an unashamed UFC fan, it seems to me this is one of those arguments he can fall back on when accused of such and say ‘but I love Lil Nog! He’d fuck Forrest up! Would a UFC nuthugger say that shit?’ Or maybe he’s just in love with Lil Nog. I can’t be sure because I mostly got derision in response to my arguments.

Lucky for me, I stopped caring what other people thought of me about ten years ago. Thus, I look at each fighter, each fight, each situation individually, and whatever side of the mythical ‘UFC v. Fuck the UFC’ divide my opinion happens to fall on, so be it. In this case, I stand by Rogerio being the 7th or 8th best LHW in the world – and I think Cane would give him fits.

Cane would beat Jardine, Forrest and Wandy . . . like Lil Nog

bignerd - May 29, 2009 reply

So what you’re really saying is you think those three are overrated and Cane is underrated. Thing is, I don’t even know how Lil Nog would fare against a guy like Cantwell because he hasn’t faced that good of a fighter in years.

Subo, I have no idea whether or not you’re right, but I’ll say this: I bet you’re a fun guy to hang out with and argue about MMA.

AJB - May 29, 2009 reply

I'll take it

You could’ve prefaced that last part with ‘Subo, I think you’re full of shit, but I’ll say this:’ and I’d still take it.

Well, if you’re ever in my part of the world, look me up. I’ll buy your UFC-nut-huggin’ ass a drink.

AJB - May 29, 2009 reply

Where you at?

Clearly somewhere in our socialist neighbor, Canadia.

Ha ha, yeah, but the socialist part is waaay overblown!

I’m in British Columbia for the next couple of months. Then the UK for a few years while I do my PhD. Hopefully back here afterwards.

AJB - May 29, 2009 reply

If I can find someone to buy this here kidney, BC sounds like a nice little road trip.