RIO DE JANEIRO, BRAZIL - JANUARY 14: Jose Aldo (C) celebrates in the crowd after defeating Chad Mendes in a featherweight bout during UFC 142 at HSBC Arena on January 14, 2012 in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. (Photo by Josh Hedges/Zuffa LLC/Zuffa LLC via Getty Images)
Brent Brookhouse: There has been a long-standing debate regarding Jose Aldo and if he can be considered in the pound-for-pound debate or if the featherweight division simply isn't good enough for him to have a credible argument. With eleven straight wins on Zuffa cards and this latest dominant win over Chad Mendes, has he done enough to make a legitimate case for a top five pound for pound fighter?
Tim Burke: He has absolutely made the case, and should comfortably sit in the top five. Featherweight might be thin, but he has been a lot of quality contenders, and a wide variety of opponents (wrestlers, strikers, etc). Two of the long-standing guys in the top three, Georges St. Pierre and Anderson Silva, faced stretches where they didn't have the toughest competition across the cage from them. I don't think Aldo should be left out of the discussion just because his division is a little behind in development. I mean, what else does the guy have to do? Move up to 155?
Fraser Coffeen: I was one of the people who felt he was anointed top 5 too fast. But the Mendes fight finally closed it for me. Yes, he's top 5. The division is still a bit thin, but as Tim said, Anderson was fighting Cote and Leites and was widely considered #1. It's not always just who you face, it's also how impressive you look against them, and Aldo looked impressive in Rio. I guess for me what it comes down to is this - for him to not be top 5, you need to find 5 guys above him. Clearly Silva, Jones, and GSP are above. But then? Edgar is the only other really in contention I think.
Brent Brookhouse: I think Jon Fitch losing kind of takes some of the teeth out of the argument against Aldo. He was one of the fighters people thought belonged above Aldo for all his accomplishments as the long-time number two guy at welterweight who seemed like he could only be beaten by one guy (St. Pierre).
In a few months Aldo will be #3 in my eyes since standard ranking procedure says you remove a fighter who has been inactive for over a year (again, St. Pierre).
As Fraser said, you have to have five guys above him to not be top five and I think the guys in the P4P discussion right now are (in no order):
More after the jump...
KJ Gould: The lack of familiarity and establishment of the Featherweight division hurts his cause. His best name win is Kenny Florian, but it can be argued Florian was severely weakened with his drop to Featherweight which impacted the fight.
In hypothetical pound for pound discussions, Anderson Silva, Frankie Edgar, Jon Jones and Georges St. Pierre rank above him in my opinion. I guess you could squeak him in at No#5 - really, who else is there except maybe Junior dos Santos? - but I would like to see him face a few other top 10 lightweights first, either by them dropping down or him going up.
Not the easiest of questions as the pound for pound debate gets pretty murky after the first 5 with a lot of people having wildly varying opinions of who should be considered.
T.P. Grant: Edgar is not in my P4P Top 5 right now, I think a lot hangs on his Ben Henderson fight. Edgar's run in championship fight has consisted of him spending two years having four fights with the same two guys, and he very easily could have ended up going 2-2 instead of 3-0-1. He impressed the hell out of me with his toughness and mental strength, and I love watching him fight. That said I want to see how Edgar fairs when he faces more lightweights. He gets hit a lot for how small and quick he is and there are guys at 155 lbs that can put hands on Edgar and if they hurt him have real finishing ability to end the fight.
So with that off topic rant out of the way, I feel Aldo is a very solid #4, with Andy Silva #1, Bones #2, GSP #3 and I feel Dominick Cruz has earn #5. Aldo is fighting in a division that is flux right now and the talent isn't very deep because many elite featherweights are still fighting at lightweight, but Aldo's resume is just too good to ignore. Aldo has not lost a fight in 6 years, he beat Mike Thomas Brown and Urijah Faber effortlessly when both where considered P4P fighters, and has defended his belt 5 times (GSP has defended 6 times).
I think Aldo's recognition is over due, his run in featherweight is as impressive as any champion's run in their division, aside from Anderson Silva.
Tim Burke: I'd probably rank Frankie highly just because he's a natural featherweight that is consistently beating guys much larger than him. If it comes down to who is # 4 (behind the aforementioned Silva/GSP/Bones trio), it's a very tough call between Aldo and Edgar for me. But there's no one else that's close to stealing a top five spot away from either of them in my eyes. Dominick Cruz isn't close. Dan Henderson isn't close. Nick Diaz isn't close.
T.P Grant: Why isn't Cruz close?
Tim Burke: Three of his last six fights (including two title defenses) have been against bantamweights. Bowles shattered his hand and had to stop. The Faber fight was waaay closer than the scores made it. And if we're questioning whether the strength of a division should affect a fighter's P4P ranking...well, BW is behind FW in development.
KJ Gould: Because like Featherweight, Bantamweight isn't developed or established yet compared to other classes.
Edgar beat Penn twice at a time when many though Penn was unstoppable at Lightweight. His fights with Maynard were epic, and Maynard has a significant size advantage and beats everyone else at Lightweight. Considering he is an undersized light weight as has been mentioned, and how Aldo has been mulling going to Lightweight because the cut to Featherweight is tough, I think Edgar has to be considered above Aldo in pound for pound discussion. Edgar could be number 2 or 3 for me.
T.P. Grant: My reservations about Edgar are just that outside of his rematch against BJ Penn we've not seen in go in and take firm control of fight from another elite fighter. The first fight with Penn was in and out but Penn was never in trouble and landed harder more accurate strikes. In both fights with Maynard, Edgar was in big, big trouble in the opening rounds. I need to see him go in and really dominate an elite fighter.
KJ Gould: He's also beaten Sherk, by the way, and beat the at the time highly touted Tyson Griffin in his UFC debut, and has the scalps of Mark Bocek and Jim Miller (pre UFC).
I think you might be underplaying how good Edgar is, considering his only loss was to Maynard and he more than made up for it in the rematches ending the last fight definitively.
Fraser Coffeen: Interesting that JDS has come up a few times. I figured he would, simply because he's a champion, but no way is he in contention in my book, as every one of his impressive wins comes against an opponent with a pretty sizable hole in his game. It's going to take a lot for a heavyweight to crack that top 5 for me, just based on the shallowness and constant flux at the top of the division.
Fraser Coffeen: Cruz isn't close because every time he gets inside and gets close, he runs away right after.
Thanks folks, I'll be here all night.
Tim Burke: Everyone meet Fraser Coffeen, the Jacob Volkmann of BE!
Fraser Coffeen: Tim, call me to schedule a glassectomy.
Matt Roth: You guys aren't thinking this through and that's cute. I can't put Aldo in the top 5 just because I don't think he was impressive in his wins over Hominick or Florian. In fact the Florian fight wasn't memorable to me, to the point that even though I sat cage side I kinda spaced out and lost track of how many rounds were already over. Yes, beating Mendes is huge but you guys are definitely being ridiculous saying he's top 5.
Tim Burke: And Anderson's win over Sonnen was impressive? Hell a lot of people have been crapping on GSP's last few performances. Aldo still beat Hominick and Florian 49-46. And had a 10-8 round against Hominick.
Matt Roth: Man I'm all but ready to drop GSP from the top 5. Pound for Pound to me means not just one of the best but also one of the most exciting. The Goddamn Sleeping Pill is the worst. If Jose is top 5 he's fringe top 5. Though I think both Edgar and Henderson are above him.
Dallas Winston: I've been pretty skeptical about Aldo's hype as well but I would now put him at #4 in front of Edgar. He only has one career loss and has now blown through much of the upper end of the division in addition to the lower end.
Frankie has a legit UFC loss to Gray plus the draw and all Aldo has are decision wins that weren't entirely dominant. Top-five? No question in my book.
1 recs | 223 comments
Aldo is in - but only until he loses once
Then he’s a joke, a bum, overrated and should retire.
Regardless of his strength of schedule he’s beaten the piss out of everyone he’s fought en route to the title and in defense of. If JDS is in the top 5 then Aldo should be above him, the HW division is far weaker than FW.
menckenstein - January 16, 2012
There’s more inherent risk in entering a fight at HW than there is at FW. You’re dealing with a greater quantity of flash KOs, and a larger degree of submission specialists like Mir who just have to grab and wrench.
Gugabe - January 16, 2012
No
discoandherpes - January 17, 2012
lolwut.png
Use your imagination.
SentientAndroid - January 17, 2012
Numbers don’t lie… something like 60% of HW fights end in knockout whereas less than 20% of BW fights do. That holds true throughout all the weight classes… the heavier the weight class, the more likely you see a knockout.
Shnak - January 17, 2012
When you have a really thin division
You get more mismatches, there for you get more finishes.
Plus it’s easier to knock out a dude who is out of breathe five minutes into the fight.
discoandherpes - January 17, 2012
There's also a greater quantity and larger degree of poorly conditioned sloppy brawlers who make competent fighters look amazing in comparison
menckenstein - January 17, 2012
P4P is about dominance
Aldo beat the last two champs and has been dominating the division ever since. He’s clearly top 5 P4P in my book. 5 straight title defenses is nothing to sneeze at.
MMAth Wiz - January 16, 2012
- Junior dos Santos-- Frankie Edgar - Gilbert Melendez
waaay too soon
LoBoTrOn - January 16, 2012
I’ll say Melendez when he’s fought guys in the UFC. Until then you cannot put on a straight face and tell me he’s in the P4P mix.
Clay Davis - January 16, 2012
Very good points.
I think Melendez really needs a tough challenge, an upper echelon LW. No idea how you can make that fight as long as he is in Strikeforce though.
killphil - January 16, 2012
Too soon for Edgar, but not for Aldo?
Yeah, that doesn’t make sense.
KJ Gould - January 16, 2012
edgar has 2 title defenses.
and a draw.
gspmademegay - January 16, 2012
Edgar beat a p4p entrant twice to earn his title.
Worldisart - January 16, 2012
i love bj
but hes been fat and lazy for a long time now.
gspmademegay - January 16, 2012
Ahhh good old revisionist history
(insert fighters name here) sucks because it suits my argument.
Gotcha.
Worldisart - January 16, 2012
whatever.
i just dont think you beat 2010-2012 bj penn and get a free pass into the (mythical/imaginary) p4p top ten. sorry.
gspmademegay - January 16, 2012
Revisionist history is also saying that Frankie won twice
that immediate rematch was granted for a reason.
Dave Strummer - January 16, 2012
Because he won a close first fight against a long standing champ?
He did win twice, whether or not you agree with it.
Worldisart - January 16, 2012
he won, but not impressively. twice.
then drew. then almost got ktfo (against the same fighter, for the second straight fight) before staging a remarkable comeback. hes good, and inspiring, just not amazing. not one of the best p4p imo.
gspmademegay - January 16, 2012
The fact that
Edgar could probably make 135 gives him some cred in P4P talk
TheCode - January 17, 2012
As far as the record books, he definitely won
but as far as P4P rankings, I don’t weigh that first BJ fight very heavily, because I thought the judging was garbage. If it is judged correctly, we may not be talking about Edgar at all at this point, cause he would have been shuffled back into the LW meat-grinder.
The second BJ fight was undoubtedly Edgar’s best fight and best win, but I still have a hard time with him P4P because of how he tends to squeak by guys.
Dave Strummer - January 16, 2012
i love edgar
but wouldnt be at all suprised if he got crushed by bendo then lost his next fight. would be happy if he proved me wrong.
gspmademegay - January 16, 2012
I really don’t see any way Edgar can beat Bendo….
but i’ve said that 4 times in a row now so 5th times the charm I guess
GotBJJ - January 17, 2012
Edgar should be able to sprawl and brawl on Bendo
Lets not pretend Bendo is a great defensive striker.
discoandherpes - January 17, 2012
To me, it's all about the...
Worldisart - January 16, 2012
gspmademegay - January 16, 2012
plus, the first fight wasnt very convincing.
1st bj fight=meh.
2nd bj fight=impressive
2nd maynard fight=shitty defense, amazing heart, DRAW.
3rd maynard fight=see above, substitute maybe the most impressive win ive ever seen for draw.
not pound for pound in my book. no subs, no gnp, questionable standup defense. hed likely get merced if any of these guys weighed the same as him.
gspmademegay - January 16, 2012
Edgar would get merced if any of these guys weighed the same as him?
Our Bovine Public - January 16, 2012
bones, andy, gsp, aldo for sure.
gspmademegay - January 16, 2012
Oh sorry I thought you meant the guys he was fighting now. Maynard Bendo etc
Our Bovine Public - January 16, 2012
Questionable stand up defense?
He has only been hit hard in two rounds in his entire career. You’re not counting the other seven plus rounds Maynard didn’t land anything clean.
discoandherpes - January 17, 2012
Uh, hell yeah it does
Aldo has 5 total defenses to Edgar’s 2…not counting the draw.
Aldo is on a 14 fight win streak and his only loss wasn’t in the weight class he is currently dominating.
Edgar needed two tries to get clear cut wins over Penn and Maynard(in the case of Maynard it was actually 3 tries) and has rocked badly in both of the last two Maynard fights.
Edgar is lacking dominance…which would be balanced out if he was on a streak that was twice in size.
Chris Groves - January 16, 2012
Bingo.
SSreporters - January 16, 2012
I also can't see how you rank Edgar over Aldo
You can make an argument that Edgar lost 2 out 4 title fights, yeah he beat BJ and Maynard decisively the second time around but that’s not enough to be ranked before Aldo
feiwongfu - January 16, 2012
i knew it.
gspmademegay - January 16, 2012
5 total defenses
In a yet to be fully established weight class, with talent yet to be comparable to lightweight, and 2 defenses was when it was the WEC belt. Edgar facing Sherk, Penn twice, Maynard twice is greater than Aldo’s entire career.
KJ Gould - January 16, 2012
better competition, agreed.
but edgars most memorable performance was getting skullfucked by maynard and toughing out a win (and a draw).
gspmademegay - January 16, 2012
You don’t think facing tougher competition might play into that? BJ Penn and Gray Maynard are much tougher outs than Mike Brown and Manny Gamburyan.
Worldisart - January 16, 2012
yeah but
gspmademegay - January 16, 2012
But what?
You’re better regarded for crushing lesser competition?
Worldisart - January 16, 2012
I think you could argue that crushing lesser guys is better than having close fights with better guys.
Bolshevik - January 16, 2012
Really?
Jason Reinhardt P4P baby!
discoandherpes - January 17, 2012
It’s comparing Jose Aldo to Frankie Edgar lol.
Bolshevik - January 17, 2012
I think you may be talking a little to early, really what has Gray Maynard accomplished? besides almost knocking out Edgar twice. And really looking through Aldo’s competition he faced Mike Brown (4 fight win streak in WEC, and 22-4 after beating Faber again, hmm sounds familiar, cough Edgar vs Penn II for the undeserving new champion) . And then there was Faber(tell me thats not tough competition and i’ll tell you who a liar is), and then there was Hominick, Florian, and Mendes which in my book are all solid contenders.
On the switch side Edgar has fought Tyson Griffin(very solid at the time, and Edgar was a big underdog as usual in this one I believe), , Sherk, BJ twice, and the last two Maynard fights.
So in quality of fighters in my opinion Aldo’s faced 5 solid opponents and Edgar has faced 4(not fair given 3 fights with Maynard and 2 with BJ but he signed the contracts haha) either way I have Aldo and 3 on my P4P and Edgar at 6 behind Cruz
GotBJJ - January 17, 2012
Edgar's also beaten Mark Bocek, and pre-UFC Jim Miller
I think looking at the number of fights Edgar had to win to get a title shot versus Aldo is pretty illustrative of the depth of each division. People like to write off Penn now, but when he faced Edgar he was coming off one of the bloodiest destructions of an opponent in MMA history when he nearly murdered Diego Sanchez.
BJ Penn was a straight up killer at Lightweight, Edgar was skilled and savvy enough to figure him out and out work him to beat him twice (and really, you can argue the first fight was close but I still gave it to Edgar at the time. People were just in disbelief he was able to do that to Penn).
KJ Gould - January 17, 2012
Yea I had Bocek on my list for Edgar because he’s always been tough competition but he kinda reminds me of a worse Maynard(in terms of competition) so I don’t think it really added to much his argument too much and same with Miller, but they were both 1-2 fights away from being a Maynard, Hominick, or Mendes in their own rights so it goes both ways.
We need to make a list of every possible thing that goes into being the P4P king, and then try to rank whatever the list has by importance/relevance (record, avg length of fight, how each fight was stopped, dominance"how bad they beat their opponent on fight metric", etc…..)
GotBJJ - January 17, 2012
Lightweight is about ten times deeper than featherweight
Of course he would have a more impressive streak if he fought in a less talented division. You don’t think Edgar would be able to beat Urijah Faber, Mike Thomas Brown, or Kenny Florian?
discoandherpes - January 17, 2012
so what, Edgar has hardly cleared out the LW division so who cares if its deeper.
New_User - January 17, 2012
You answered your own question
LW is deeper, ergo more fighters to fight at the high level, ergo he hasn’t cleared it out.
Aldo got a title shot with just 5 fights in the WEC, against stellar competition such as Jonathan Brookins, Rolando Perez and Chris Mickle
KJ Gould - January 17, 2012
Glad to have you on my side
Good point.
discoandherpes - January 17, 2012
maybe it comes down to this: could edgar beat aldo at 145?
at 155?
i say no to both.
gspmademegay - January 17, 2012
Your name’s hilarious,
I’d like to see them fight at a catch weight fair to both of them, even though Edgar is not a LW structured fighter we don’t know if he has that same rhythm if he loses 10 or more pounds.
GotBJJ - January 17, 2012
If he couldn't defend the leg kicks
No. If he could? Yes.
discoandherpes - January 17, 2012
and the knees. And the punches.
GreyedOut - January 17, 2012
Brookhouse nailed it
The fall of Fitch makes this a no-brainer. The other fighters he mentioned, as well as a Rashad Evans and possibly a Joe Benavidez, help round out the top 10, but do not rank above Aldo— particularly after what he accomplished on Saturday. I’d have to rank them Anderson, GSP, Aldo, Jones, Frankie. The one thing you do have to say is that it’s such a tight field of remarkable fighters, that the disparity between the five is barely worth defining. It’s the group after them that is more debatable.
Charles Awad - January 16, 2012
I’ve always taken it that GSP is the no 1 P4P fighter. Hell, I consider that the Sonnen fight even puts Anderson below Fedor on the all-time GOAT-list.
GSP has never been dominated for 4.5 rounds like that. Anderson literally had nothing for Sonnen till the last 2 minutes, and took probably the most one-sided championship-fight beat-down along the way. Also, MW competition makes HW/FW/BW look like good divisions
Gugabe - January 16, 2012
Anderson hurt, Sonnen on testosterone
I don’t think you can say anything about how that fight went, even if Anderson lost (which he did not, let me remind you). Save it for the rematch.
And Fedor had been in MUCH deeper trouble than that, multiple times. I guess he’s not privy to the same criticisms?
Charles Awad - January 16, 2012
Lets be honest
GSP has a more impressive UFC resume than Silva. He’s beaten four guys that have been on the pound for pound list at one point at one time.
discoandherpes - January 17, 2012
You know Fedor got dominated by Big Foot, right?
KJ Gould - January 17, 2012
This pound for pound list shit has to stop.
malo - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I consider the UK to have the #1 pound-for-pound currency......
SSreporters - January 16, 2012
Thought the whole continent switched to Euros
You know, so we can get closer to the New World Order
Krimson - January 16, 2012
apparantly you also thought England was in Continental Europe
The Lethal Haze - January 16, 2012
the currency is great
but its no michael bisping.
gspmademegay - January 16, 2012
Shut up if you don't like it
I, for one, find it intriguing.
halitosis - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Top 5 definitely, top 3 possibly. Nobody can cope with the man at 145 and I’d put money on him to dethrone the Edgar vs Henderson winner. How many other guys would you back to beat the champion in the weight class above? I reckon none.
sheikybaby - January 16, 2012
Well…this Jones guy, maybe
But yeah. Aldo has been too impressive so far to not be considered unless you want to impose a “has to stay on top for at least 3 years”-clause or something.
KGNLuc - January 16, 2012
id say JDS or the reem could handle jones at this point
New_User - January 17, 2012
What? Other than Hardy, what the heck are you talking about? Let’s compare Aldo’s stretch of competition and GSP’s… if you tell me Aldo’s competition was tougher than GSP’s, you’re flat out lying to yourself.
Shnak - January 16, 2012
Anderson faced Irvin (at 205), Cote and Leites in one stretch. GSP’s isn’t as bad, but Serra, BJ and Hardy weren’t top contenders at WW when he faced them. I mean, Serra was the champ the second time, but still.
Tim Burke - January 16, 2012
I agree about Anderson, but dispute what you said about GSP. Let’s compare GSP’s last 7-8 fights with Aldo’s… who’s faced the best competition?
Let’s not forget that 135 and 145 divisions are just getting established… guys are still moving from 145 to 135, and from 155 to 145. It’s very early in these divisions, and it’s really hard to get a clear picture of the quality of guys fighting in these smaller divisions.
Shnak - January 16, 2012
You can’t blame GSP for fighting Serra, since that was the TUF and kind of outside of his control at that point. Hardy was on a reasonable streak at that point, and there really wasn’t that much better in the way of challengers at the point. BJ was an ex-champ, might not have been the most effective at WW, but still was a logical challenge.
Gugabe - January 16, 2012
GSP shouldn't have lost to Serra, or been unable to finish Hardy
KJ Gould - January 17, 2012
And Aldo should’ve been able to finish Hominick. I mean, it took Korean Zombie 7 seconds to do it! MMA Math at its finest!
Shnak - January 17, 2012
And that wasn’t my point anyway. You make a habit out of finding weird ways to look at what people say. GSP has faced tougher competition than Aldo, undoubtedly. I was saying that some weakish competition at some points shouldn’t be enough to eliminate you from top 5 P4P talk.
Tim Burke - January 16, 2012
Well that I agree with. But I just hate how GSP’s name has been dragged in the mud since his injury… he’s on the downhill of his career, he’d done as an elite fighter, he’s not a p4p fighter anymore, his competition wasn’t that good, he’s exposed, bla bla bla. It’s all BS. GSP’s still the best WW in the world, and once he’s done with Diaz (who will beat Condit, IMO), we’ll once again turn around and say that Diaz wasn’t a good fighter, just like everyone’s turned on Shields who was on something like a 20 winning streak coming into his fight with GSP.
Shnak - January 16, 2012
I’m on your side in that debate man, GSP’s still # 2 to me. Unquestionably.
Tim Burke - January 16, 2012
Blatant Canadian bias
everyone knows Nick Diaz is P4P better than him at WW
#UnbiasedBayArea
Robert V-U - January 16, 2012
GSP’s #1 in my book. Tougher competition, more well-rounded game-plan, better camps and otherwise superior preparation coming into his fights.
GSP has never been dominated like AS in the Sonnen fight, a P4P #1 shouldn’t be treated to that sort of a performance even by a counter-style.
Gugabe - January 16, 2012
Huge GSP fan here, but I still have Anderson Silva as #1. What he does to most his opponents is unheard of. When he faces subpar competition that has nothing on him (Okami, recently), he finishes them in spectacular fashion. GSP’s not finishing guys he should. That takes away from his ranking, IMO.
Also, an important element to the P4P rankings is how well a fighter would do against bigger competition. We know Anderson Silva would be a top 5 LHW if he decided to go up there. He’s already beaten Griffin like nobody else ever has. Who knows how GSP would fare against the elite at MW? He’d give up a lot of size, for one.
That’s why Edgar deserves a lot of credit. He’s one of the smallest LW’s around, and obviously does very well in that division. He could easily cut to 145. An argument could be made that he deserves to be #2 in the P4P rankings, really. And he might just get there if he beats the bigger and stronger Ben Henderson soon.
Shnak - January 17, 2012
Edgar could probably make bantamweight
I mean, him and Dominick Cruz are about the same size. Edgar is a bit thicker, but Cruz is a little bit taller.
discoandherpes - January 17, 2012
I’ve had Aldo #1 for a while. He’s the complete package.
FlyByKnight - January 16, 2012
I really like Aldo
but…no.
SentientAndroid - January 16, 2012
I can’t believe so many of you are ranking Jones higher than Aldo. Bullshit.
Aldo: 5 title defense
Jones: 2
It’s not even debatable in my book. Aldo is top 3, results speak for themselves.
All this talk of ‘being impressive’ or ‘entertaining’ is ridiculous, this is not the WWE. Go watch scripted shows if you want to be entertained, i want to know who the best man is.
Kenya_MMA - January 16, 2012
I think they rank him so highly because he's crushed top guys in his division.
Not beaten, crushed.
Krimson - January 16, 2012
Yeah
Nobody has wrecked Rampage or Shogun like that in recent memory, and Machida was a very legit defense.
I don’t personally rank Jones above Aldo, but it’s not out of the question at all due to the dominance Jones has showed.
Scott Whitaker - January 16, 2012
Nobody Wrecked Rampage like that? Never seen Pride?
inthepipes - January 16, 2012
This.
Wandy ass smashed him.
T.C. Engel - January 16, 2012
Well, he did say “in recent memory”. Guess it depends on your definition of that.
Horselover Fat - January 16, 2012
Recent memory
Recent being the key word.
Scott Whitaker - January 16, 2012
what kind of recent isnt in the last 5-10 years
inthepipes - January 16, 2012
That covers half the history of the modern sport so far
KJ Gould - January 17, 2012
ok here is a taste of what Wandy did to Rampage
T.P. Grant - January 16, 2012
yikes.
theres another one of ranpage laying there, leaking so much blood its really hard to watch. what a beatdown.
gspmademegay - January 16, 2012
also, who the fuck is ranpage?
gspmademegay - January 16, 2012
yeah Rampage looked dead
T.P. Grant - January 16, 2012
I know what Wandy did to Rampage
I also said “in recent memory.”
Since then Rampage did this to Wandy:
Scott Whitaker - January 16, 2012
Fair point but i believe it is much harder to have 5 title defenses than 2 dominating ones.
Also, Machida did win the 1st round vs Jones. Aldo has only lost 1 round too, in more title fights than Jones. Aldo has been just as dominant but he is a small guy, finishes are rarer in lighter weight classes.
Kenya_MMA - January 16, 2012
Valid point. Side note: I think it was razor close 1st round w/ Jones/Machida. But I think Machida DID hurt him. Jones needed a good reality check so that he doesn’t feel invincible. Doesn’t wanna lose to a Matt Serra
Krimson - January 16, 2012
Visions
Of Jones fighting Matt Serra then! LOL
taptomyarmbar - January 16, 2012
Victory by Omoplata. Because he’s Matt Fuckin Serra
Krimson - January 16, 2012
One of Jones' arms
Is prob bigger than Serra’s wingspan!
taptomyarmbar - January 16, 2012
just more arm to break!
T.P. Grant - January 16, 2012
Bones would have to
come out on all fours just to land punches
taptomyarmbar - January 16, 2012
Serra looked about 205 actually
Last time I saw him
taptomyarmbar - January 16, 2012
hes fighting at Pastaweight
Kevin Jennison J. Zametov-St Pierre - January 16, 2012
Matt "The Cannoli" Serra
Cocytus - January 16, 2012
Rumor has it he was Rumble's nutritionist
halitosis - January 16, 2012 via mobile
In the span of a few months
Jones crushed three out of five of the still active former UFC LHW champions
T.P. Grant - January 16, 2012
To be fair
Aldo crushed Faber and Brown, both of whom were considered long-term champs.
Scott Whitaker - January 16, 2012
yep
That is why I consider Aldo a Top 5 guy, this is where strength of division plays in. LHW isn’t a great division but the Top 10 of that division is very tough to crack.
T.P. Grant - January 16, 2012
Really? I think LHW is an excellent division.
SSreporters - January 16, 2012
LHW is top heavy
There’s a lot of quality in the top 10-15, but it goes ugly pretty fast after that imo.
Jeremiah Johnson. - January 16, 2012
make a list of the best 15 LHWs in the UFC
call me when you get to around 8 or 9
T.P. Grant - January 16, 2012
And there’s like 5 top FW’s. What’s your point? FW is not a better division than LHW, no freaking way.
Shnak - January 16, 2012
so you agree with me?
read the comments fully
T.P. Grant - January 16, 2012
Gotcha. I thought you were saying FW was better than LHW when in reality you were saying that while LHW is bad, FW is worse. I agree.
Shnak - January 16, 2012
Sure
Jones, Shogun, Machida, Henderson, Evans, Davis, Lil Nog, Gustafsson, Thiago Silva, Franklin, Griffin, Bader, Matyushenko, Tito (cringe), and Bonnar.
Okay the last three are ugly but you added the barrier of “in the UFC” to which I could replace those last three with Mousasi, King Mo, and Cavalcante.
SSreporters - January 16, 2012
I’d argue that Franklin and Griffin should be lower and considered in the ugly.
also I think Hederson’s stint in the upper tiers in the division is very, very limited. The next guy to fight Hendo, be it Jones or someone else, is going to be looking for a takedown. Hendo’s game off his back fairly weak and his ability to stop shot takedowns is pretty minimal.
T.P. Grant - January 16, 2012
LHW *was* excellent
It’s a division with a lot of name value, but IMO the real strength of the division is no longer what it used to be. Rampage, Shogun, Little Nog, Tito…all past their prime.
The top-guys currently in the division and still in their prime are: Rashad, Jones, Machida (Hendo,as bizarrely TRT that may be, as well). After that, it’s already the up-comers like Gustafsson, Phil Davis, Bader.
KGNLuc - January 16, 2012
Rampage and Rua aren’t past their primes. Rampage stopped evolving and stopped really training MMA and got past by the rest of MMA.
Rua has had three knee surgeries, and it has clearly effected him.
T.P. Grant - January 16, 2012
So they are not past their prime because of age. The term is not limited to that, IMO. They will never be as good as they once were, especially not relative to their competition.
KGNLuc - January 16, 2012
Based on age, Shogun isn’t past his prime. He just turned 30.
MicahtheCynic - January 17, 2012
His fighting age is like 58, though.
Shnak - January 17, 2012
3 out of 7
forgot about Ortiz & Belfort.
/nitpicking
Kevin Jennison J. Zametov-St Pierre - January 16, 2012
Jones has beaten Shogun, Rampage and Machida
Back to back in one year. And he destroyed them all.
KJ Gould - January 16, 2012
reading that still blows my mind right in front of my face.
gspmademegay - January 16, 2012
Never happened
LA LA LA LA LA LA CAN’T HEAR YOU
menckenstein - January 16, 2012
LHW is the UFC's historic prestige division
And Bones has murdered it. “Entertaining” may not matter, but “dominating” does, in terms of P4P discussion.
Dave Strummer - January 16, 2012
Title defenses are the dumbest fucking reason to rank someone else above another person
If one guy wipes out the entire division and only wins the title in his last fight in the streak, how is that better than getting five title defenses in a weaker division?
discoandherpes - January 17, 2012
I don't see how Aldo can be anything but top 5
Those who you can even make the argument for being above him are Anderson Silva, GSP (soon to drop due to inactivity), Jon Jones, and Frankie Edgar.
Cruz is fighting men who ought to be at Flyweight, Junior is new to being a champion. I don’t think anyone has recently made the case that they, like Fitch, are top P4P in spite of not being champ.
IMHO, Aldo is #4 ahead of Jones. Once GSP falls off, Aldo is going to be #3.
Scott Whitaker - January 16, 2012
Melendez?
No!
taptomyarmbar - January 16, 2012
Top 10?
I don’t really see anyone else who belongs there.
Scott Whitaker - January 16, 2012
He's not fighting the best comp
I don’t see how he can be top 10 p4p on that basis.
taptomyarmbar - January 16, 2012
try to make a Top 10 p4p list
after #7 it gets kinda tough to not include Melendez
T.P. Grant - January 16, 2012
Not really.
Tim Burke - January 16, 2012
Is Melendez the #2 or #3 lightweight in the world?
Is lightweight one of the best and deepest division in MMA?
if your answer to both questions is yes, then it isn’t crazy to put him in that 7-12 range
T.P. Grant - January 16, 2012
He'll be the number 2 or 3 lightweight in the world
When he starts beating other lightweights in the top 10
taptomyarmbar - January 16, 2012
There are 7 divisions. The champions of all 7 are ahead of Melendez. Hendo and Diaz definitely are ahead of him. So 10 is the absolute highest I could put him, and I’d still have Gray or Bendo ahead of him. Gil hasn’t faced enough top competition.
Tim Burke - January 16, 2012
Exactly. You could easily argue he's not even a top 5 lightweight based on his comp
taptomyarmbar - January 16, 2012
So when Cain’s only decent win was Lesnar (and arguably Nog) in one of the worst divisions in the sport, you would put him above a guy who has top-5/10 wins at LW (arguably deepest division in the sport) just because they are a UFC champion?
Gracchus - January 16, 2012
Who said
Cain was above Melendez?
You can make a case for Melendez not being top 5 in his weight class as he is not fighting guys in the top 10
taptomyarmbar - January 16, 2012
“UFC”
those three letters have a huge influence on fans assessment of a fighter. While the UFC has collected much of the top talent, but in the lighter weight classes there are many quality fighters outside of the UFC.
T.P. Grant - January 16, 2012
they have a MASSIVE influence on who taptomyarmbar considers a worthy fighter
New_User - January 17, 2012
No!
Can I suggest you try reading posts properly? Melendez is not beating top lightweights, unfortunately for him practically the whole top 10 is in the UFC and he isn’t.
taptomyarmbar - January 17, 2012
Tough to compare HW to LW
The depth of competition available to 155’rs is vastly superior to the level of competition available to Cain at HW.
Worldisart - January 16, 2012
Aldo is definitely top 5 p4p
Behind GSP, Anderson Silva, and Jon Jones but ahead of Edgar and Cruz.
I think Cruz should be given consideration for top 5 p4p. He dominated Jorgensen, was dominating Bowles even before Brian’s hand broke, beat the only guy to defeat him, and comfortably beat Mighty Mouse. And unlike Aldo vs. Hominick, Cruz has taken virtually no damage in any of his victories. He has as many (or more, can’t remember) title defenses as Miguel Torres, who was really hyped as a top p4p fighter.
SSreporters - January 16, 2012
As I said, Cruz has beaten bantamweights. I rank Edgar ahead of him because he’s a featherweight beating lightweights.
Tim Burke - January 16, 2012
So are you going on "a win is a win is a win"?
Because he arguably lost the first Penn fight and the first Maynard fight. His only dominant win was the 2nd Penn ass kicking and then he had a dominant finish against Maynard in the rubber match.
I guess what I’m saying is that while it’s impressive that a small LW is beating a guy who has a lot of fights at WW and Gray Maynard, he has not really been a dominant champion like Aldo or Cruz.
SSreporters - January 16, 2012
Yes, a win is a win. It comes down to how people define P4P I guess. Bigger guy beating smaller guys (and not even doing much to them to win…he SD’d w/ Benavidez) isn’t that impressive to me.
Tim Burke - January 16, 2012
Crap I forgot about the Benavidez fight
And honestly I hated that fight it was so ugly and sloppy to watch.
I’m far from a Cruz fan and I think he’s boring as shit, but I think he deserves a little more respect than he gets.
It really comes down to Edgar vs. Henderson I guess then. Bendo is built like a WW and has a great chin so it’s not like Edgar has a realistic chance of KOing him, so he’ll probably have to outwrestle and outpoint him. If he does that I’m sold on Edgar for the long term.
SSreporters - January 16, 2012
I have a feeling
Bendo will finish what Maynard couldn’t
taptomyarmbar - January 16, 2012
Doubt it
Bendo’s boxing is not that good and not really powerful. Henderson’s best chance is a ground and pound stoppage.
SSreporters - January 16, 2012
Agree
I didn’t mean he would finish it on the feet, thinking guillotine or ground n pound
taptomyarmbar - January 16, 2012
Bendo presents all sort of interesting problems for Edgar
He isn’t going to stand and bang with Edgar, he is going to want to grapple. On the mat, Bendo is flat out better than Edgar, but Edgar is a fantastic scrambler and can wiggle his way out of any position.
Bendo is crazy aggressive with submissions from top position, unlike Maynard or Penn (who works for the back, then RNC) and he great GNP. But he gets tired in later rounds, and that is Edgar’s time. It is going to be a great fight.
T.P. Grant - January 16, 2012
I can't wait to see it
Bendo wins by better hair
taptomyarmbar - January 16, 2012
Unfortunately for Bendo
Edgar seems to get better every single round, and get better (overall) every single fight.
discoandherpes - January 17, 2012
what is wrong with beating bantamweights?
do you mean flyweights?
Clifford J - January 16, 2012
I was wondering that as well
I think he means flyweights.
SentientAndroid - January 16, 2012
either way
i don’t know how you put edgar in front of cruz. edgar is on a one fight winning streak. benavidez and johnson, though you call them “flyweights”, were dominant at 135 (benavidez has only lost to cruz, and johnson has only lost to cruz and one other fighter).
i guess p4p is just subjective.
Clifford J - January 16, 2012
I can’t put Melendez in the top P4P til I see him fight some credible competition. As in don’t re-sign with StrikeForce, fool!
Edgar you can build a case for but I think it’s a tie between Frankie Edgar and Jose Aldo simply based on who they fought to get where they are today.
MMAth also says that Maynard trained w/ Aldo and Edgar beat Maynard so that means Aldo + Maynard > Edgar which makes Frankie Edgar that more ridiculous and that Dana White needs to get into the lab to re-create a monster in order to destroy him
Krimson - January 16, 2012
Just to be clear
In my book P4P means how much skill/talent you have in comparison to your weight/reach/size. I.e. if these guys were the same size/weight who would win based on their natural talent. Dominance, excitement, title defences or finishes shouldnt really matter. Therefore I’ve got it: Silva, Aldo, Jones, GSP, Edgar,JDS, Cruz
Our Bovine Public - January 16, 2012
I think if JDS is on the list at all he should be at the bottom
He’s the least skilled of everyone listed
menckenstein - January 16, 2012
he's really not
His boxing is arguably one of the best in MMA. His TDD is also incredible
Our Bovine Public - January 16, 2012
He hits hard, because he is big
He has some of the best boxing at heavyweight, but there are smaller guys with better technique than him. JDS isn’t awful by any means but there are better guys to put on Mt. P4pmore
menckenstein - January 16, 2012
he has great technique IMO as well as hitting hard. His angles, feet and head movement are all very solid and he throws his punches the right way.
Our Bovine Public - January 16, 2012
He's a great heavyweight
But he’s not better than those 4 other guys, well… maybe Cruz.
menckenstein - January 16, 2012
If you’re talking pure striking, I’d say he’s one of the best in MMA. Junior’s hands are ridiculous.
MicahtheCynic - January 17, 2012
Diaz is ahead of him if you’re speaking about pure offense.
discoandherpes - January 17, 2012
I’d say it’s more a matter of different sytles of offense. Especially since both have proven to be highly effective.
GreyedOut - January 17, 2012
I look at it in the same light + the way in which they've won
I think P4P list is an organic process, incrementally changing everytime someone fights:
Post Bones-vs-Machida:
Post UFC 142:
Cocytus - January 16, 2012
And something I thought I'd never say but...
If Jones defeats Rashad and Dan Henderson in the same decisive way he’s beat Shogun, Rampage, and Machida, and Silva has the same kind of fight in his rematch with Chael as he did the first time, I’ll be putting Jones as #1.
That is a lot of ifs, but its still a possibility.
Cocytus - January 16, 2012
Roth is out to lunch
Aldo has been incredibly dominant. P4P isn’t about how much he entertains you. FW looks thin as a result of Aldo’s dominance, not because there aren’t good fighters. I can’t see how you can put 5 fighters ahead of Aldo.
GSP
Andeson
Jones
I can see being above him. Edgar, no. He’s 1-1-1 with Maynard and is just a few seconds/punches/millimeters/etc from being 0-3 against Maynard. He also, in my mind, lost BJ 1 and Maynard 2. No way.
Henderson? Really? Based on what? Beating an old, sliding Fedor? Really? Above the 11 straight wins in Zuffa Aldo with 5 title defenses?
Jeremiah Johnson. - January 16, 2012
bitch, dont fade roth!
*sorry about the harsh language and direct insult. that said, slap yo self.
gspmademegay - January 16, 2012
How is GSP still on the list when he has not had a fight in how long and who knows when he will have his next fight? IMO only active fighters should be on this list.
the jewish conquistador - January 16, 2012
He hasn't fought since April 2011
Which was a decision win over a guy who hadn’t lost in like 7.5 decades. So he should be on the list.
SSreporters - January 16, 2012
is that 75 years?
shamo84 - January 16, 2012
As Brent said up there, fighters are generally considered until they haven’t competed for one calendar year.
Tim Burke - January 16, 2012
Alrighty then!
Hater?
taptomyarmbar - January 16, 2012
- Gilbert Melendez
gtfo
Cory Braiterman - January 16, 2012
How the top 7 pound for pound fighters aren't always the 7 UFC champs is beyond me
Jon Fitch being in there, to me, was a joke. He lost to GSP and wasn’t exactly fighting a who’s who of murderers. Gono, Thiago, Pierce on short notice, Saunders on virtually no notice, Alves after over a year out, then he had a draw with Penn…not a win, a draw, he couldn’t beat Penn.
To be pound for pound you need dominance over the best. GSP may have been decisioning guys, but he always won, once Fitch didn’t beat Penn…any pound for pound talk certainly had to go out the window. And obviously now that he was absolutely crushed by a guy ranked at #2…the talk is over and he is out of the discussion.
Anderson has to be #1, 9 defenses and his great win streak PLUS wins at 205…and considering in the past he had big wins at 170 as well. He’s #1.
GSP probably gets #2, 6 defenses, avenged both losses
Others in no particular order
Nick Diaz – 11 fight win streak, that’s dominance, had a couple of catchweight bouts in there against heavier opponents as well, which gets you extra points.
Alistair Overeem – 12 fight unbeaten streak with 11 wins. All of those finishes but one. He’s been busy and he has been dominant. Throw in the fact that he won a K-1 Grand Prix and I would say he belongs on the list.
Gilbert Melendez – Big win streak, avenged both losses, he’s extremely legit.
Dan Henderson – He probably is more deserving of the ‘all time pound for pound’ list than of the current list…because of how many times he’s climbed back to the highest levels after losing.
Chris Groves - January 16, 2012
What the fuck is up with the formatting?
Others in no order – Diaz, Reem, Melendez and Hendo
Chris Groves - January 16, 2012
hard for me to accept
cruz just looks like such a spaz when he fights. cant argue with results but thats the worst style since jardine.
gspmademegay - January 16, 2012
Jones should definitely be above Cruz
He just finished three former champions back to back.
av1o3 - January 16, 2012
Based on competition
Jones has been more impressive.
av1o3 - January 16, 2012
I also agree
Although it’s not Cruz’s fault his division is young and thin – it’s still a fact. I think Rua, Machida, Rampage, and Bader are much more impressive “w’s” on the resume than Faber, Bowles, Benavidez, and Johnson.
Throw in the fact that Jones has looked unstoppable (minus RD 1 Machida) in every round, of every UFC fight he’s been a part of.
nannerb - January 16, 2012
This is basically mine
Top 5
1. Anderson
2. GSP
3. Aldo
4. Jones
5. Edgar/Cruz
SentientAndroid - January 16, 2012
I agree with this
av1o3 - January 16, 2012
Depending on how 2012 shapes up
I can see Jones leap frogging to number 2 past GSP (inactivity) and Aldo (depends) if he can get a least 3 more wins this year and if Silva doesn’t lose.
SentientAndroid - January 16, 2012
Cruz actually may be above Edgar imo…
SentientAndroid - January 16, 2012
You all know what time it is?
TIME FOR A SEVEN WAY TIE FOR FIRST PLACE!
T.C. Engel - January 16, 2012
...
P4P = Mental Masturbation. There isn’t a P4P division. There’s never been a P4P Championship fight. There never will be. Why? It’s fantasy and arguing about it like it’s real just makes you seem like an idiot.
FrontRowBrian - January 16, 2012
Then we’re idiots.
Tim Burke - January 16, 2012
Chael Sonnen, is that you?
Chris Groves - January 16, 2012
I hate mental masturbation
Because my mind tends to wander to other things so I get mentally cockblocked
SSreporters - January 16, 2012
Clifford J - January 16, 2012
gah
quote fail.
Clifford J - January 16, 2012
How does everybody view the P4P stuff?
I always viewed it as skill set versus skill set disregarding reach, weight, height, and so on.
dedstrk316 - January 16, 2012
I always viewed p4p as “the fighter is so good he could move up in weight and still be able to dominate/ and or dominate fighters much bigger than him because he is so skilled”
Roy Jones Jr. was a good example of who i think exemplifies P4P king
terzergoss - January 16, 2012
I see it as synonymous with best
since I don’t think you can separate a fighter from his physical attributes.
Dave Strummer - January 16, 2012
This
that’s why I can never get behind the (if all fighters were of equal weight/size) theory. If you took the champs from all 7 weight classes and somehow made them all lightweights, it wouldn’t really work imo. JDS’ phenomenal power would be syphoned and you’d have to redistribrute Jone’s length.
SentientAndroid - January 16, 2012
I see your point
But with this thinking, along with Androids post below, we shouldn’t even compare a MW like Anderson to a 145’er like Aldo because in a fight of course Anderson would smoke him. And if you are comparing recent legacies and opponents and what not then, to me, that’s not apples to apples as they are all different styles and sizes and etc.
And for terzer’s point then one could really only compare P4P fighters one weight class above the fighter being discussed.
So this discussion brought me to this thought, if you put Anderson in all of Aldo’s opponents frames, one at a time, who wins? Then do the same for Aldo. Put Aldo’s skill set in Chael’s frame for example. Put Andy’s in Mendes’.
It’s so convoluted. The one thing I’ve learned from this is to never use the words “pound for pound”. I’ll just say I think Anderson is the best fighter at this time and Jones is 2.
dedstrk316 - January 16, 2012
Hmm...
Interesting train of thought. If Jones had all of his skills and if his length was redistributed in the frame of a 145 pounder (which means he would still have longer limbs than every fw) and put him against Aldo, who’d win and vice versa? Would Jones be stronger as a fw than Aldo? Would Jones clinch takedowns in a fw frame be enough to take Aldo down at will even after seeing how good Aldo’s tdd is/was against Mendes? Would Aldo’s cannonball striking and brutal leg kicks be more than enough to stifle and eventually beat a 145 Jones? It’s really difficult, but if we look at it that way I can’t help but think that Jones and JDS would be top two p4p…maybe…I’m confused.
SentientAndroid - January 17, 2012
And this is why P4P is ultimately subjective
And kinda stupid.
discoandherpes - January 17, 2012
why this issue will never settle.
P4P in my opinion means being best at ____________. Therefore insert fighteris the best fighter because __________ is more important than ____________ when ranking P4P.
terzergoss - January 16, 2012
obviously 'fapping' is the missing word there.
gspmademegay - January 16, 2012
You must be killer at crosswords.
GreyedOut - January 16, 2012
not really.
fapping, on the other hand…
gspmademegay - January 16, 2012
...or this hand.
gspmademegay - January 16, 2012
Yes
Ive had Aldo as a top 5 before this fight guys an amazing fighter.
Leethornton1 - January 16, 2012
Wheres
Rumble?
yellopanda - January 16, 2012
here:
gspmademegay - January 16, 2012
Jones, Aldo and Anderson ahead of GSP… just because they finish fights. trollface
Seriously though, I think the whole “OMG the welterweights are so awesome” argument so weak and full of intangibles… as there’s not much you can can compare against (How many WWs transitioned to another weight category and dominated it?).
GSP owns the division the same way Anderson owns the MW. Remove both champions and you would have a very competitive field again.
Same thing to the FWs. People tend to give no credit to the featherweight division, always pointing out that “LWs would cut down and dominate”. Suddenly, MTB and Faber became 2nd tier opponents.
Gotta love the internet forums.
frozzen - January 16, 2012
Unbiased, Definitive, Objective, ULTIMATE P4P list
1. A. Silva
2. Nick Diaz
3. Hendo
4. Gilbert Melendez
5. Dominick Cruz
6. Bones
7. Frankie Edgar
8. Get Sleepin’ Permanently
9. Jose Aldo
Robert V-U - January 16, 2012
A prize for who knows what 2 thru 5 have in common
Robert V-U - January 16, 2012
They’re all vastly overrated?
Shnak - January 17, 2012
Here's my top 5 list (I'm indecisive):
#1: Anderson Silva
#2: GSP, Bones and Aldo in a three way tie.
#5: Cruz and Edgar in a tie.
Bolshevik - January 17, 2012
Here’s my Top 5 list:
1.Anderson Silva
2-10: Who cares?
MicahtheCynic - January 17, 2012
A. Silva is the boss
That’s something everyone can agree on
Robert V-U - January 17, 2012
I have Silva, GSP, Jones, and Edgar all ahead of him based on quality of wins.
discoandherpes - January 17, 2012
I look at it like this
I have Silva, GSP, Jones, Aldo, JDS, Edgar, Cruz. I have Aldo ahead of Edgar and Cruz because I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t brutally knock them both out. Once Edgar gets manhandled by Bendo, we can stop with this whole top 5 p4p with him.
NEW-HAMPSHIRE - January 17, 2012
I think 2012 is going to clarify this list.
I see Silva, Jones and Aldo sticking around as top 3 by year end. GSP being inactive should drop him out and Edgar is going to have some work to do to earn his spot(Bendo, N. Diaz). JDS has his work cut out with Overeem and I just can’t get behind Cruz for top 5. That being said, 2012 Nick Ring is coming to dominate. You heard it here first.
NickRingp4pGOAT - January 17, 2012
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