Bas Rutten knows a little bit about Dutch fighters, so when he talked to Sherdog about Alistair Overeem and his chances in a UFC heavyweight title fight with Junior dos Santos, it was worth listening to. The legendary fighter and broadcaster does not think too highly of Overeem's punch resistance.
From the interview:
"I think Alistair, everything he does is one single shot because he knows he's got that glass jaw as well. He's been knocked out quite a few times in the past, even by Chuck Liddell as well. Every time when he punches, one hand is up. He throws single shots; he doesn't throw combinations. You saw that when he fought [Fabricio] Werdum. Werdum was actually tagging him more than he did to Werdum. I think that Junior dos Santos, with his combinations, his reach, I think he's going to tag him and he's going to throw combos and I think that yeah, he's going to take this fight."
There is other Bas goodness in the interview including talking about Cyborg Santos' positive steroid test and his new TV show.
0 recs | 214 comments
Agreed
I think Junior takes this pretty quick. Brocklrsnar was tagging Reem JDS is putting him to sleep
Bobillarious - January 22, 2012 via Android app
Brock was tagging Overeem?
What alternate universe are you from?
lolumad - January 22, 2012
AO's eye was bleeding at the end of the fight not because of Lenar's punches, but because of AO's inate awesomeness
The Lethal Haze - January 22, 2012
Brock hit him once, I’m not denying that, but to claim he was getting “tagged” is a little ridiculous.
lolumad - January 22, 2012
He wasn't bleeding because of a punch
Notice that the bleeing started after Brock went for a single and after the clinch Overeem was bleeding. No punches were landed or even thrown at this time.
OzzDee - January 22, 2012
are you saying there was a clash of heads in the clinch?
cause I didn’t see that either… but I did see Lesnar actually punch Reem in the face earlier in the match…
The Lethal Haze - January 22, 2012
Yep that's what I think
Clash of heads or whatever happened in the clinch. Lesnar may have been punching Overeem, but Alistair wasn’t bleeding after the punches, he was bleeding after the clinched. I watched the fight like 20 times lol
OzzDee - January 22, 2012
oh shit son!
This just got real.
RandyCouture'sDivorceLawyer - January 22, 2012 via mobile
Bas is a really knowledgeable dude. I wish we’d see more of it these days, rather than the El Guapo schtick he’s went overboard with.
Zachary Kater - January 22, 2012
Bas also says ankle locks are just a pain move
That gaffe is going to stick with him for the rest of his life.
KJ Gould - January 22, 2012
Everything Rutten says about Overeem seems loaded with bias these days.Whether it’s jealousy about not being the only Dutch icon in MMA anymore or simply to do with Overeems management issues, Bas Rutten doesn’t have a balanced opinion on Alistair Overeem.
sheikybaby - January 22, 2012
I absolutely agree.
Rutten and Overeem are old Golden Glory training partners that go way back. Since Overeem’s split with GG Rutten has been very critical and negative when talking about Overeem.
Sean__H - January 22, 2012
First Bas said Overeem was the best heavyweight in the world and that nobody would beat him....
But since the split with Golden Glory there is all of a sudden nothing good about Overeem.
This is a very sad case mr. Bas Rutten.
Jealousy is a MF….
Sanderman - January 22, 2012
I came here to say the same thing
But just rec’ing you and Sheikybaby instead.
hardlyworking - January 23, 2012
Some nice combos, 7,14min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYSAwFEEHPs
Bas, eat your heart out!
Sanderman - January 25, 2012
Yea, seems odd.
I really like Bas, his opinion is spot on and that is why I agreed with him when he proclaimed Alistair the #1 heavyweight a few months back. I cant think of anything that Alistair has done since then to warrant the negative comments. Perhaps its Alistair’s legal issues, other than winning a big fight its the only thing that has changed. Of course, its totally possible that Bas simply changed his mind. People do that.
MadNachos - January 22, 2012
true
D Pad Jones - January 22, 2012
Exactly, he's got some beef with the Reem.
I’m sorry you can’t get through a K1 Grand Prix if your jaw is made of glass. Fighters are going to get his in the face/jaw constantly in that.
squaresphere - January 23, 2012
Didn’t he say that about Achilles Lock?
dancingChicken - January 22, 2012
If he did then no gaffe here…(Achilles = Straight Ankle Lock)
ludakrish - January 22, 2012
I'd say big gaffe still
KJ Gould - January 22, 2012
Yikes!
jthin - January 22, 2012
Yeah, but you’re pointing out one example/exception and calling it a general rule. Pretty much anything can be dangerous or potentially break something if you’re forcing it the way it isn’t supposed to go.
ludakrish - January 22, 2012
That's the whole point of a submission
You concede defeat before something breaks or you go unconscious. The problem is most people don’t know how to apply certain ones properly or optimally.
Saying any submission that works a joint of the body is just a pain move is dangerous advise to give especially to those just starting out in grappling, and I’ll always have an issue with someone who makes such a stupid statement.
KJ Gould - January 22, 2012
Well, you’re saying that a submission like an armbar and an achilles lock are the same – they’re not. A fully sunk in armbar will almost always result in something broken or injured (unless somebody is double jointed) whereas a fully sunk in achilles lock will only in a small fraction of the times would result in a break or injury. Wherein lies the key difference.
When you’re grappling everybody is aware of the risks of twisting or contorting the human body into positions it isn’t used to. Just because checking a kick can (and has reasonably often) resulted in a clean broken leg doesn’t mean you advise new students of the bone breaking risks of checking kicks. That’s just puerile.
Anyways, I’m with Bas on this one. You’re entitled to your opinion.
ludakrish - January 22, 2012
Yeah, your example doesn't work
Since there’s a whole, continual process of shin conditioning so that you can check kicks at a much lower risk of the tibia and fibula breaking.
You let a good Catch or Sambo guy get your ankle and try to gut it out, you’re getting it broken. BJJ guys still don’t have all the details down and they’ve really only been heavily using leglocks in competition (nogi) in the last 10-15 years tops.
KJ Gould - January 22, 2012
And that doesn’t apply to stretching ligaments over time as a BJJ practitioner? I suggest you look up some of Eddie Bravo’s stretch exercises. Besides most of the breaks that happen, happen to kickboxers who have been conditioning their shins for years. Your point is meaningless.
ludakrish - January 22, 2012
I agree with KJ because consider how much the average MMA fighter trains each particular submission move. What if people trained the achilles lock as much as they train RNCs now?
Bolshevik - January 22, 2012
Though then people would start training the defense more…
Hmmm.
Bolshevik - January 22, 2012
Haha…likely. However leg locks in MMA are probably never going to explode in popularity, bar your Imanaris and Paul Harrises, simply because you have to dedicate all 4 limbs on one of your opponents.
Good examples of the dangers of poorly executed/planned leg locks – Shogun v. Jones and PeeWee Herman v. Jim York.
ludakrish - January 23, 2012
"simply because you have to dedicate all 4 limbs on one of your opponents."
As opposed to an armbar …
KJ Gould - January 23, 2012
..where your opponent can’t posture up and hit you in the face? Was it that difficult to understand?
ludakrish - January 23, 2012
Let’s ignore the fact Shogun used leg locks to sweep for years successfully.
discoandherpes - January 23, 2012
And this has what to do with the fact that his going for poorly set up leg lock got him KTFO-d by Bones?
ludakrish - January 23, 2012
Ligaments do not have stretch receptors
Some of Eddie Bravo’s stretching exercises are flat out dangerous. His ‘heelhook’ stretch is one of the most retarded things I’ve ever seen.
Ligaments are made up of two tissue types, yellow and white. Yellow is the one that stretches but returns to it’s original size. It can not be made ‘more’ stretchy. White is for the general stability.
I’m confident I have a better idea of what I’m talking about here.
KJ Gould - January 23, 2012
I agree.
discoandherpes - January 23, 2012
I don’t doubt this for a minute.
And since tendons do and thus can stretch ipso facto ligaments cannot stretch. Your logic is infallible. I think every gymnast alive pretty much invalidates your point of ligaments being unstretchable.
ludakrish - January 23, 2012
he also still yells about elbows only causing cuts.
Phildo - January 22, 2012
Despite fighters constantly proving him wrong
discoandherpes - January 22, 2012
That probably goes back to his anti-UFC bias as a Pride commentator.
Sean__H - January 22, 2012
I don’t know what the bias is, it’s just wrong so it shouldn’t be said.
Phildo - January 22, 2012
What exactly is a “pain move”? Something that can’t injure you, just hurts like hell?
Zachary Kater - January 22, 2012
Yup
You only tap if you’re a pussy, basically, at least according to Bas.
wonderfulspam - January 22, 2012
I’m struggling to even think of an MMA technique that would be considered one under that definition. The best I can come up with is when someone’s trying for an RNC but can’t get under the neck so they just twist the head and apply pressure to the jaw.
Zachary Kater - January 22, 2012
Exactly, a neck crank
That’s considered one of the classic “pain moves.”
MichaelDavidSmith - January 22, 2012
Except it's not a pain move
Not the ones done properly.
KJ Gould - January 22, 2012
Can opener
I think Ray Sefo tapped to that in an HWGP alternate bout? To Valentijn Overeem, no less.
wonderfulspam - January 22, 2012
I think the most common one is a calf cutter.
I used to tap to compression locks all the time. That stuff feels horrendous.
SanFranpsycho - January 22, 2012
Calf slicer
discoandherpes - January 22, 2012
Yeah, cutters/slicers are the only ones that come to mind
Body triangles might count too, but those are more exhaustion than pain.
I wanted so badly to tap to one of those on my first day of BJJ, couldn’t bring myself to do it though.
Shaun32887 - January 22, 2012
Calf slicers are horrible. But again, they’re dangerous in the event of a bone break.
Body triangles are terrible when you’re gassed – it basically doesn’t let you breathe. Nasty stuff..
ludakrish - January 22, 2012
Calf cutters and Bicep slicers are not pain moves either
You’re playing with fire if you think otherwise.
KJ Gould - January 22, 2012
I thought they were?
I’ve never been tapped with one, so I honestly wouldn’t know.
discoandherpes - January 22, 2012
Imagine you're in a room with a door that opens towards you
And you put a block of wood between the door and the wall as a wedge, and you slam the door towards the wall as hard as possible.
The door is gouged, the wall is gouged, but the hinges are blown apart. That’s your knee or elbow if you don’t tap to a well executed slicer / cutter.
In the case of a slicer like move on the arm, sometimes it’s the forearm that can break, just like this
KJ Gould - January 22, 2012
jesus christ what a snap
you’re coming with serious info in this thread btw
Cunny - January 22, 2012
I don't like anyone taking submissions lightly
There’s a lot of myths out there that have the potential to get people seriously hurt. So I’m going to speak up on it, for what it’s worth, to try and prevent that from happening.
KJ Gould - January 22, 2012
100% right and thank you...
The thought of anyone calling a neck crank a ‘pain move’ scares the shit out of me.
ThatsHowIRoll - January 22, 2012
holy crap that video KJ
that was a nasty crack.
yes there are no real pain submissions. Some positions can be painful and yes sometimes guys in your local gym tap to pain, pressure or exhaustion.
But properly executed submissions will either result in damage to a limb or leave a fighter sleeping if they don’t tap.
the “pain submission” myths come from when guys do submissions improperly and they will hurt but guys can maybe gut them out. But a properly done ankle lock will break the ankle.
T.P. Grant - January 22, 2012
KJ – thanks for teaching me about slicers :) This was the first I had heard of the move (I subsequently went and did some research). Almost exactly one week before UFC on FOX with Oliviera’s sweet sub. It was nice to know what that move was even while Rogan was floundering for words!
OmoPlata - January 29, 2012
My understanding is...
Calf cutters and bicep slicers hyperflex the joints and cause strain on the ligaments on the front of the knees and elbows the same way kneebars and armbars hyperextend those joints to cause ligament damage on the inside of knees/elbows.
Sean__H - January 22, 2012
Yup...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfSnK2ntnO0
Bicep slicer = snapper
Do not fuck with slicers. “Pain” move is a myth. Everything breaks something or puts you unconscious.
chillnnsht - January 22, 2012
Well yeah
I call them that because the pain threshold is so far away from the damage threshold.
With an armbar, the point that you feel pain is very close to the point that you damage your arm. With the slicers, the point that you feel pain is reached much more quickly than the point that damage can occur.
Speaking of slicers, remember that calf slicer Dos Anjos hit on Tyson Griffin? Man that was beautiful.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/4/6/819138/bloody-elbow-judo-chop-rafael-dos
Shaun32887 - January 23, 2012
when I comes to Bas
I really value his input on striking, he is one of the really great early strikers, and he learned the ground game to enough of a degree to win in MMA. But when it comes to grappling I take Bas with a grain of salt, because was never really a submission grappler.
T.P. Grant - January 22, 2012
I take his grappling commentary with a grain of salt too, however
Bas absolutely was a submission grappler. He has more wins by sub then by KO and one of the few fighters in history with a “well-rounded” submission attack. Meaning he’s won fights by nearly everything – guillotines, heel hooks, kneebars, arm bars, triangles, arm-triangles, neck cranks, toe holds etc… He doesn’t always get it right, but he is absolutely well-versed in subs.
Genki Sudo's Choreographer - January 22, 2012
getting submissions back in Pancrase
is like guys pilling up submissions in M-1 today, doesn’t really mean that much. Did Bas have a functional ground game? Yes. Do I considered him a great grappler? No.
T.P. Grant - January 22, 2012
Some of his grappling knowledge is spot on
Other areas will leave you scratching your head.
KJ Gould - January 22, 2012
Probably because they've never worked on him.
I imagine that some Dutch kickboxer training partner tried to ankle lock him in ‘95 and was unsuccessful so ever since he’s had the idea that ankle locks just don’t work.
Sean__H - January 22, 2012
Bas is a Golden Glory shill
He’s been kissing Overeems ass all along but now that he’s broken ties with the camp all of a sudden he has a glas jaw and will KTFO’ed ?
His analysis now is probably more honest and accurate. But it’s still lame he changes his tune like this now.
KGNLuc - January 22, 2012
Look at Bas in this film from 2.42
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K2zzEwKnPQ
Hahahaha Bas Bas Bas!!!!!
Sanderman - February 1, 2012
Bas really has it out for the Reem
But he has a point. those combinations JDS throws are deadly.
But can JDS survive a clinch warfare?
elmojo - January 22, 2012
JDS is pretty beast in the clinch as well
discoandherpes - January 22, 2012
I’m going to be honest, but I really don’t remember an MMA bout that JDS was in that he showed that he was a beast in the clinch.
chrisbboy82 - January 22, 2012
Blasting Cro Cop with knees
discoandherpes - January 22, 2012
JDS has good clinch work
But nobody, including Anderson, is better in the clinch than Overeem.
Patrick Wyman - January 22, 2012
I disagree
Anderson has done it against a high level opponent in MMA. Overeem has been can crushing for quite a bit, so outside of Werdum and Lesnar, it’s hard to judge where he is at.
discoandherpes - January 22, 2012
What he did to Werdum
In the clinch was pretty shocking to me. Werdum generates a great deal of his offense from the Thai clinch, and he had nothing for the Reem there – Alistair tossed him around like a child and generally got the better of those exchanges.
Patrick Wyman - January 22, 2012
He also got blasted by huge knee
And hit A LOT in that fight.
discoandherpes - January 22, 2012
Believe me
I’m fully on the “Werdum might have won that fight but for the guard-pulling” train, but aside from that knee and a little dirty boxing Alistair dominated the clinch.
Patrick Wyman - January 22, 2012
Well...either we accept tht Overeem got hit a lot, including a huge knee
Thus, the ‘glass jaw’ argument is non-existant.
OR we look at it the other way…which is, to me, upon replays…that big knee(at least the one I’m thinking of) and a lot of the punches didn’t even hit Reem.
Chris Groves - January 22, 2012
Overeem did get hit a lot
And still doesn’t have the best chin. Werdum rarely poses a knockout threat with his striking (outside of a knee).
discoandherpes - January 22, 2012
Considering Cro Cop’s decline, I don’t see how that really shows that JDS is “beastly” in the clinch. Had he shown some strong clinch skills against opponents who are not noticeably slower and on the decline, then I would agree with you.
chrisbboy82 - January 22, 2012
Cro Cop at that point is still better than most of the heavyweight division
discoandherpes - January 23, 2012
More examples would definitely strengthen your claim. At best from what I’ve seen, JDS is “good” in the clinch, but just hasn’t really shown to be “beastly” in the clinch. He also has a tendency to fight more at range than in the inside unless he’s using uppercuts.
chrisbboy82 - January 24, 2012
Probably not
I think Dos Santos has superior footwork and will be able to stay out of the clinch and hurt AO from distance. Then again I thought Brock and Werdum would beat Reem so what the hell do I know
cbrody111 - January 22, 2012
I think Bas is right...
But I wonder how much of that is him being pissed about the Golden Glory thing. Not that long ago Bas was claiming Reem was the #1 heavyweight.
cbrody111 - January 22, 2012
It's entirely about the Golden Glory thing
Prior to the Golden Glory split, Bas would loudly proclaim to all who would listen that Overeem was the best heavyweight in the world. Why didn’t he say anything about Overeem’s glass jaw then?
MichaelDavidSmith - January 22, 2012
How long ago was that?
dedstrk316 - January 22, 2012
Not long ago.
A little over a year ago. What has changed since then, Bas?
Sabate - January 22, 2012
Or the fact that JDS
Has proven he’s better in some peoples opinion.
dedstrk316 - January 22, 2012
But if Overeem has such a glass jaw
Why didn’t Bas rank JDS ahead of him before Overeem left Golden Glory?
MichaelDavidSmith - January 22, 2012
Rankings are subject to change
I thought AO was above JDS a year or so ago and now I do not. I think JDS will beat him.
dedstrk316 - January 22, 2012
This isn't a debate about JDS being better.
Its a debate about Overeem having a “glass jaw”. Rutten has done a 180 on his position, and nothing has happened (e.g. Lesnar KOing Overeem) to justify his complete about-face.
Sabate - January 22, 2012
Oh my bad
I understand now. I thought we were talking about who is better. I think JDS will blitz AO but I do not think AO has a glass jaw whatsoever.
dedstrk316 - January 22, 2012
I'm picking JDS to beat Overeem too
But it’s absurd that Bas Rutten suddenly went from Overeem’s biggest fan to his biggest detractor solely because Overeem left Golden Glory.
MichaelDavidSmith - January 22, 2012
Is his brother still training at GG?
Zachary Kater - January 22, 2012
its not absurd, its pretty standard
amongst people who value loyalty over the truth.
The Lethal Haze - January 22, 2012
Yah I agree with you
I’m sure that there is biased there unlike in my case. I was just pointing out that it’s possible for there to be another reason. Bas is just to translucent on this issue.
dedstrk316 - January 22, 2012
Word.
I think JDS poses real problems for Overeem, although I’m not sure who I would pick yet.
Sabate - January 22, 2012
Has Rutten changed his view?
Has he ever said Reem has a good chin?
Rolandando - January 22, 2012
Wow. In 2010 Reem was no.1 HW in Rutten’s rankings (it was laughable back then). I guess the whole GG vs Reem affair changed their relationship.
dancingChicken - January 22, 2012
This AO Golden Glory beef is deeeeeeeep
The Lethal Haze - January 22, 2012
I read that like Rogan was speaking about a choke.
Zachary Kater - January 22, 2012
Same
T.C. Engel - January 22, 2012 via iPhone app
If I was a betting man
I would have JDS by KO as well.
discoandherpes - January 22, 2012
Knocked out even by Chuck Lidell, lol.
Matthi - January 22, 2012
great minds think alike
some schmuck in texas - January 22, 2012
Knocked out by Chuck Lidell, even!
Bas, exit, stage left!
Balrog - January 22, 2012
Thank you
Piru P - January 22, 2012
Chuck "Pillow-Fists" Liddell.
Zachary Kater - January 22, 2012
Wish more fighters had proper technique like Alistair does.
gzl5000 - January 22, 2012
But it isn't even true.
In his last two fights, which were against grapplers/wrestlers, Overeem has kept his hands very low, presumably to help with takedown defense.
Sabate - January 22, 2012
AO having his hands down by his waste reminded me of an old time boxer’s stance… like Jack Johnson. (just talking about AO’s stance from this fight, not AO’s and JJ’s actual styles)
The Lethal Haze - January 22, 2012
No idea Ken Burns directed a Jack Johnson documentary.
I would watch that. Thanks!
Sabate - January 22, 2012
It's really good.
djganesh - January 22, 2012
the documentary was good
But I can’t even express how much better the autobiography was. The footnotes (and there are extensive footnotes on nearly every page) contained some of the most entertaining and illuminating back stories and tangents in the entire book.
The Lethal Haze - January 22, 2012
Whenever I see any old boxing footage.
I can’t help but wonder what a modern boxer would have done to the sport and where it would be today if the evolution took place so long ago.
djganesh - January 22, 2012
Any sport
Watching basketball from like the early 80s or before is just a different sport. A fadeaway jumper then is called a wide open look now. A guy like Josh Smith would have dominated in 1980—-6’9 with hops didn’t exist. Baseball the same thing—-pitchers’ stuff sucked and everyone was a skinny slap hitter. Obviously football players have gotten absurdly faster and bigger.
The modern training is so comically better than the crap a lot of people believed even 30 years ago. It’s ridiculous when the old-timers complain about how things are played now, they weren’t even playing the same sport.
joker24 - January 22, 2012
the key difference in your examples – steroids.
OmoPlata - January 23, 2012
cletusvandam - January 22, 2012
lol that fucking guy.
UncleMax - January 22, 2012
The choice was obvious to me
Rolandando - January 22, 2012
What a terrible fucking show
attgnp - January 22, 2012
you probably enjoy family guy, sir.
theworldismine - January 23, 2012
Rec'd
And probably true.
discoandherpes - January 23, 2012
Yes I do
attgnp - January 23, 2012
yes. pretttty pretttyyyy good. prettty good.
theworldismine - January 23, 2012
I feel like if...
Reem keeps JDS at distance with kicks he stands a strong chance but then I also think JDS can close the distance with combinations…this fight for me is truly a toss up
Chris WhiteDynamite Bielanski - January 22, 2012
Honestly I think the key to beating jds is to submit em but that’s no easy task considering he has some of the best tdd. Seriously you remember the carwin fight at the end of the third round that choke he got junior in was pretty deep before the bell rung
youfailme91 - January 22, 2012 via mobile
I could be wrong, but I don't think that choke was deep
Sure he was squeezing his neck, but it didn’t look like he had a choke there.
discoandherpes - January 22, 2012
We should ask Joe.
Zachary Kater - January 22, 2012
It's deep
dancingChicken - January 22, 2012
Pre roids Dana is good looking
Dana is gonna be like Vince McMahon swole at 60 yr old from roids…
RECE ROCK - January 23, 2012 via mobile
yeah auto correct..... "goofy" looking.
RECE ROCK - January 23, 2012
If Shane Carwin has a hold of your neck
It doesn’t matter if it is called a choke or “head squashed like a grape”, you’re probably going to tap.
Shane Carwin is a fighter who will go down in history as a “never-was”, and that is a shame, because he really was a beast. In a world without Cain Velasquez and Junior Dos Santos, where Fedor and Alistair stay in another promotion, Carwin would be talked about as top ten, fans eagerly hoping for his return.
Shane could still evolve, still come back and be a gatekeeper for a while, but most of us realize he’s done.
I loved watching Carwin stuff Brock’s takedown in that first round. I could watch that over and over and over again. Nowadays I know that stuffing Brocklesnar is possible for any good HW, but when Carwin fought him, it was believed Brock’s Double Leg was DOOM for any fighter.
RobtWeaver - January 23, 2012
Not really
I’m sure JDS has had strong guys trying to choke him before. If he didn’t have a choke and was just squeezing I’m sure JDS could have handled it.
discoandherpes - January 23, 2012
Can I ask a favor?
Could someone sketch out or link to an article that describes the Golden Glory issue? I am not familiar with that. It sounds like a business deal gone bad? I just read the comments and was already thinking that for a dutch fighter to publicly blast the only other prominent icon of dutch fighting (at least that I am aware of) but it sounds like they gots beef. Whats up?
DankNabbot - January 22, 2012
BE covered it here
Pantherhare - January 22, 2012
Link post fail
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/11/16/2566480/ufc-alistair-overeem-bas-rutten-golden-glory
Pantherhare - January 22, 2012
thanks!
DankNabbot - January 22, 2012
"Even by Chuck Lidell" lol
Pillowhands Charlie, they call him.
some schmuck in texas - January 22, 2012
I know him as
Charles McFluffinfists
TheFilt - January 22, 2012
I find the statements of Overeem's glass jaw to be hyperbolic
Yeah, he doesn’t have an iron chin, but it’s not like he’s constantly being wobbled, rocked, stunned and dropped every fight. He’s taken some good hits in his recent years of K1 and kept on trucking.
That’s sort of a moot point when dealing with the totally imba power of JDS’s punches… but well I’m just putting it out there.
Pyrgz Krum - January 22, 2012
4 oz gloves my man.....
Big difference! The shots that Nelson absorbed from JDS…I don’t think Reem can take.
Taiter - January 22, 2012
not really
the extra speed afforded by 4 oz. gloves doesn’t offer much advantage over the extra mass of 12 oz. gloves.
tha dude - January 22, 2012
C’mon son
Afrotikiman - January 22, 2012 via mobile
The only thing 4 oz. gloves are protecting are the fists of the fighters, and ask Brian Bowles how that works out for him.
Zachary Kater - January 22, 2012
Smaller gloves = smaller point of contact
More force in one place → bigger chance of a hit “on the buttton” leading to a knockout.
wonderfulspam - January 22, 2012
And striking defense gets more difficult since the gloves can find smaller gaps on the way to the chin.
Zachary Kater - January 22, 2012
That too
But the point made was that the extra mass of 12oz gloves = harder hits → more knockouts, which is a fallacy.
wonderfulspam - January 22, 2012
I just wanted to be helpful, dammit!
:)
Zachary Kater - January 22, 2012
he didn't make that point at all
Just that there isn’t much of a difference between the two.
There is a tradeoff… you can punch much harder with the 12 oz gloves without fear of breaking your hand than you can in the 4 oz gloves. At the end of the day it has alot more to do with the guy throwing punches than the gear he’s wearing on his hands.
The Lethal Haze - January 22, 2012
He never mentioned anything about hand protection though and nowhere did he imply that….he thinks the trade off of speed for less mass is a wash but that is completely untrue…the density of the material and contact surface are big variables
Afrotikiman - January 22, 2012 via mobile
The extra mass afforded by the gloves is what protects your hands and allows you to safely punch harder. There is a tradeoff, and the variable that matters most is the guy throwing the punches.
The Lethal Haze - January 22, 2012
I’ve never thought of fighters holding back on striking power to avoid breaking their hands. It would be interesting to have a fighter’s perspective on this. Paging Killa B!
Zachary Kater - January 22, 2012
Lol just nevermind
Afrotikiman - January 22, 2012 via mobile
lol
will do
The Lethal Haze - January 22, 2012
Sure, but essentially nobody cares in MMA and punch their hardest anyway. It's a totally moot point and kind of silly to argue.
James Brady - January 22, 2012
There is no "button"
As far as I understand things (and they make sense to me): The KO is the result of the brain slamming into the side of the skull. A hit on the tip of the jaw affords good leverage to impart the necessary torque on the head, so this is one of many good points of impact, hence the “button”-talk. But a smaller area of impact will only change the concentration of force in that point thereby breaking bones easier for example. But the momentum imparted on the head that leads to a KO doesn’t change much, if at all.
KGNLuc - January 22, 2012
I dunno above the ear, or the tip of the jaw seems like points "or buttons" you can aim for to increase your transfer of momentum
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - January 22, 2012
Yeah, he's no Dan Henderson
but he took some very solid shots to the temple from Tyron Spong and recovered very quickly. Hardly a glass jaw.
Sabate - January 22, 2012
On the other hand, before the shots to the temple, he got rocked by a jab. I think his jaw is fine though.
dancingChicken - January 22, 2012
I really wouldn't call that a jab
He had his right cocked and it looked like he pushed his whole body into that punch…he almost lept in with it.
He certainly wasn’t jabbing in the traditional sense like what GSP was doing to Koscheck….
Chris Groves - January 22, 2012
I’m not saying that he tried to score a little point with a jab but rocked Reem instead. Obviously it had mustard behind it, but it still was a jab, not a power punch.
Timing of that punch probably played a bigger role than it’s power, as Reem was going in with his chin in the air.
dancingChicken - January 22, 2012
Yeah, I gotcha.
Reem did sort of run/leap right into it, as well…which never helps.
Chris Groves - January 22, 2012
He's been rocked by pretty much every good striker he has fought.
In MMA at least.
discoandherpes - January 22, 2012
I agree with Bas and he's said it before ......
…this isn’t the first time Bas has said this and I agree with him. He is without a doubt gonna get tagged by JDS, so we will see if he’s right. Reem isn’t gonna bully JDS and we all saw Werdum outstrike him…..if you say he didn’t, you are lying to yourself.
JDS by KO.
Taiter - January 22, 2012
When did Bas say Overeem had a glass jaw before?
All I ever heard Bas say about Overeem before he left Golden Glory was that he’s the best fighter in the world.
MichaelDavidSmith - January 22, 2012
He said it on his show before the Lesnar fight....
Taiter - January 22, 2012
That was after Overeem left Golden Glory
Before Overeem left Golden Glory, Bas never noticed this alleged glass jaw.
MichaelDavidSmith - January 22, 2012
Yep, before that he said Alistair was the #1 heavyweight in the world.
Haywire - January 22, 2012
Why would Reem have the same gameplan against JDS that he did against Werdum?
Zachary Kater - January 22, 2012
This.
Many critics seem to overlook that Overeem uncharacteristically had his hands down during the entire Werdum fight. He clearly was unconcerned about being hit by Werdum – and I think too unconcerned, he almost lost the fight – and was almost entirely focused on stopping takedowns.
Sabate - January 22, 2012
I've always wondered about this
I don’t have good access to Overeem’s previous fights, or Werdum’s, for that matter, but watching Werdum repeatedly find Overeem’s face was disheartening…until I noticed it was having no effect. I still thought that was one of the lousiest fights I’ve ever seen and it didn’t really answer the question of which is the better fighter. I couldn’t call the fight for Overeem or Werdum, in my opinion, neither one really fought, just waited for the other one to get frustrated and try to fight their opponent’s fight.
I agree with the statement that you have to beat the champion, not just stay in the ring with him, but Alistair clearly feared Werdum’s ground game too much, and I still haven’t decided if that means Werdum is that good or Alistair is that bad on the ground.
RobtWeaver - January 23, 2012
But you’re allowed to avoid the ground fighting with TDD. You’re not allowed to avoid the stand-up with flopping. The fight sucked because of Werdum’s dumb gameplan.
Bolshevik - January 23, 2012
He said it before the Lesnar fight.....right on his show.
.
Taiter - January 22, 2012
If JDS can stay out of or not get too much damage in reem’s clinch, i think he will knock him out also
phantom5691 - January 22, 2012
You can’t use Bruce Banner getting beaten up as an example of how you a fight with The Hulk would go.
M.Sphinx - January 22, 2012
HA!
SanFranpsycho - January 22, 2012
I know it's funny to say and all
But do we have any reason to believe that Alistair’s skill set has vastly improved.
discoandherpes - January 22, 2012
Yes
His clinch work, kicks, angles, TDD, and fight IQ are all infinitely better than they were back in 2005.
Patrick Wyman - January 22, 2012
Or is he just facing less talented fighters at heavyweight?
discoandherpes - January 22, 2012
Also a possibility
But I lean toward genuine improvement, especially since for me the Brock fight demonstrated that he’s figuring out how to adapt his kickboxing for MMA better than in the past.
Patrick Wyman - January 22, 2012
I don't see much in his striking or grappling that has improved
For example, I think if him and Shogun were the same size Shogun would probably beat him up a third time.
discoandherpes - January 22, 2012
Grappling
I have no idea. If anything, he’s probably deteriorated. There’s no way you can say his striking hasn’t improved, though, especially in terms of footwork, angles, and selection/volume of his strikes. He’s also much smoother overall. If you look at his old fights, he threw a lot of looping punches, jumping knees, and the occasional kick, and he moved straight in and straight out; he now has a full arsenal, with a much greater emphasis on power punching, selective kicks, and especially the uberknees, all with much better setups and angles.
Patrick Wyman - January 22, 2012
I disagree
With the exception of his punches. I will give him that, his punching has gotten better. That said, he has always had a good clinch game.
discoandherpes - January 22, 2012
Hell yes
I think no longer having to cut weight has played a much bigger role in Alistair’s development than people give credit for. Alistair has been able to focus entirely on improving his skill set, and the increased strength gives him confidence in elements of various attacks that I don’t think would be there if he was still fighting at 205.
How much more focus can a fighter place on training purely on technique if they’re not having to devote any time whatsoever to cutting weight?
Maybe someday medical science will prove my whacky theory that fat percentage has something to do with “chin”; I just notice that fighters who make weight a bit easier seem to have harder chins.
RobtWeaver - January 23, 2012
I'm a big Bas fan...
but I call shenanigans. If anybody has any doubts about the Reem’s jaw, I urge you to watch his ‘09 K1 GP fight against Badr Hari. If you don’t know much about K1, let me assure you Hari is a striker with huge power. Even though Hari tagged the Reem twice for the victory AO was far from out.
ludakrish - January 22, 2012
He also said Cheick Kongo is a very big threat to Overeem.
Taken as a whole (never pointing out AO’s glass jaw before his split with GG, saying he had a glass jaw but then pointing out Werdum landed more, downplaying Chuck’s KO power, etc.) his analysis is clearly not objective.
Pantherhare - January 22, 2012
Last I heard he's entitled to an opinion....
….kinda same as you. He said what he thinks and right or wrong…it’s his opinion.
Taiter - January 22, 2012
yes, we are are entitled to question his opinion when it appears to be based on Overeem’s manager more than his fighting skills.
Phildo - January 22, 2012
I start to dislike bas more and more with these anti-overeem comments that are very obviously biased.
CVD - January 22, 2012
funny how just a few months ago Bas was singing Overems praises and ranking him as his #1 HW in the wold before he had actually done anything
ever since Alistair split with Golden Glory it seems like Bas has it out for him, who knows why really, but Bas clearly has a biased opinion on everything that is related to Oveeem.
darkotto23 - January 22, 2012
Agreed, BAS is heavily biased.
For years, Bas was proclaiming Overeem was the #1 HW.
Then Overeem had trouble with his management, Bas dissaproved and was pretty vocal about it (on Twitter and in interviews).
All of a sudden, Overeem wans’t the #1 HW in the world in Bas’ book.
When Overeem was in Bas’ good graces, Bas actually said a couple of times on insideMMA that he liked how the new Reem protected his face well and that it was a great improvement to his game. Now he’s saying he throws single shots, has a glass chin, etc.
My interpretation of all this is similar to that of the biased comments of Frank Mir saying Reem can’t beat Brock or Shane Carwin saying there’s no way the Reem gets past JDS (they both lost to the opponents they were commenting on; “if I couldn’t do it there’s no way this guy is going to do it” or something like that).
aTn - January 22, 2012
My point: biased opinions should be interpreted as what they are
aTn - January 22, 2012
I love Bas, but his ever-changing opinion of AO makes this story go in one ear and out the other. Sorry Bas, The Reem isn’t a can… as much as you want us to think so.
Mr Pickles - January 22, 2012
Doesn't Reem have a reputation for reduced performance if he get's tagged (Pride era Reem perhaps..but still)
There’s a lot of screaming about bias, what’s wrong with pointing out a weakness, opinion or not, and picking another fighter?
UncleMax - January 22, 2012
I like Reem as a fighter. But I don’t see anything wrong with someone pointing out that JDS could knock him out.
That’s a very real possibility.
UncleMax - January 22, 2012
well...
…when you contradict yourself when no new supportive evidence has taken place…it makes sense for people to claim bias.
Corrupted - January 22, 2012
it’s fine to point out a weakness. It’s more fine to point out that bas was giving his opinions about this fighter for a while and didn’t mention this weakness until now.
Phildo - January 22, 2012
Definitely like jds in this fight but it’s one of the most exciting hw fights in a long long time. Bas has balls dissing the reem like this. And as great as Bas was, If alistar pulls this off and holds k1 UFC strikeforce and dream titles at once you’ve got to say he’d be more of an mma legend than Bas ever was, especially with how difficult it is to be successful in today’s shark tank.
peet cassidy - January 22, 2012 via mobile
Really interesting that Alistair "Glass Jaw" Overeem
was the world’s No. 1 HW on the official Bas Rutten list for an extended period of time…
killphil - January 22, 2012
Always bet on the guy Bas picks to lose.
He may be an expert fighter/trainer, but as an analyst he blows, and his opinions are usually personal.
Dustinovsky - January 22, 2012
Yep, lately, he relies almost completely on his personal feelings and emotions. And to think I used to hold his opinions to such high regard.
andrew861 - January 22, 2012
I don't understand the negative feedback
In my opinion, he is right on the money. And the main reason he references for his opinion (the Werdum fight) occurred after he listed Overeem as his #1. Also, not many people had JDS ahead of Overeem back in 2010. Why should he be held to his opinion from over a year ago? If he is only saying this because he is angry at Overeem for leaving GG, then at least he is backing it up with solid reasoning.
alxn - January 22, 2012
Well Bas is probably right
That Overeem can’t take a punch that well and throws only single bombs because of that. But I don’t agree that Dos Santos will win, because as Bas said Overeem is aware of that and won’t make a boxing match with Dos Santos. He’ll kick him from outside, then clich and uberknee and a punch to end the show.
OzzDee - January 22, 2012
Its hilarious how blatantly Bas lets personal feelings get in the way of his predictions/comments
When Overeem was with Golden Glory and he and Bas were friends and fellow countrymen then he considered Overeem the best heavyweight in the world. He consistently ranked him at #1.
Now that he’s split with Golden Glory he’s a glass jawed 1 shot striker.
How bout some objectivity, eh Bas?
Robust23 - January 22, 2012
yeah, ever since the Overeem & GG legal thing, Bas has jumped off Overeem's bandwagon.
daftshadow - January 22, 2012
Yeah
He definitely exaggerates, Overeem doesn’t have a glass jaw, but he doesn’t have an iron jaw either. Just average punch resistance I would say, but on the other side superb fighting skills and freak power.
OzzDee - January 22, 2012
Wow, Bas is still mad about the Golden Glory thing. Its sad to see what a hater he has become.
andrew861 - January 22, 2012
Interesting perspective Bas!
Sounds a little bit like sour grapes to me though.
mixedmartialmike - January 22, 2012
Bas Rutten’s personality is overrated.
Bolshevik - January 22, 2012
Like a BAS!
The chin is a concern.
dajulzta - January 22, 2012 via Android app
I don’t necessarily disagree with what Bas is saying, it’s just that it seems like this is said out of some beef with Overeem. I remember how much he used to praise The Reem, and I feel that if Overeem was still with Golden Glory, Bas would say that Overeem would beat JDS. Now that Overeem’s not with them, Bas just comes off as disingenuous, which hurts the credibility of what he is saying in my opinion.
chrisbboy82 - January 23, 2012
Bias Rutten is not exposed!
Rutten defended his opinion of Alistair Overeem as the best HW back in the day with the simple logic that “this is my show and this is my opinion”. So, even when Reem was with Golden Glory, Bias didn’t necessarily break it down and explain why AO was going to beat any UFC HW. He stated plainly and openly that he liked AO, therefore, AO was #1, that simple.
Bias in Bas Rutten’s analysis is hardly a new thing.
RobtWeaver - January 23, 2012
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