Photo via Esther Lin / MMAFighting.com
Yesterday we saw Bas Rutten say that Alistair Overeem would lose to Junior dos Santos because of having a "glass jaw" and now today we can add Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira to those picking dos Santos. This time not due to being "chinny" but because he isn't big enough.
Junior dos Santos will defend his title against Alistair Overeem in the middle of the year. What are your thoughts about that?
Cigano wins via knockout, I'm sure of that. He's a lot faster, knows how to move, he won't get that knee, and he's much more complete and has much more stamina, and that'll make a great difference. Overeem has never defeated someone as big as Cigano.
How do you see Overeem's evolution since Pride, where he fought names like Shogun, Arona and your brother, Rogerio?
Alistair Overeem is a lot bigger, stronger, more explosive, but not big enough to beat Junior dos Santos.
So now the 6'5" 260+ pound Overeem is too small for the shorter and lighter Junior dos Santos?
Interesting.
0 recs | 119 comments
Hmmm...
Not counting JDS out by any means (I think he will win), but it won’t be determined by his size. Very strange assessment.
TDITZ - January 23, 2012
I think he meant...
“He might be big, but not big enough to beat JDS, taking their skillsets into account.”
Kinda like…
“Jose Aldo might be fast, but not fast enough to beat Roy Nelson, taking Roy Nelson’s belly into account.” or… “Jose Aldo is a lot faster, smarter, more explosive than he used to be, but still not fast enough to beat Roy Nelson.”
Clearly Jose Aldo is WAY quicker than Nelson, but he’d get crushed (literally) because of other factors.
Charlie Offenbacher - January 23, 2012
(Overeem is obviously bigger but still maybe not big enough to make up for JDS' skills)
Charlie Offenbacher - January 23, 2012
I understand what Nog meant.
TDITZ - January 24, 2012
That's what I think he meant.
Sweet Scientist - January 23, 2012
that is how I interpreted it as well
alxn - January 23, 2012
In an old school vale tudo fight
I’d take Aldo.
discoandherpes - January 23, 2012
Same here
He couldn’t touch Jose on his feet and wouldn’t have a pray at getting him down.
TheFilt - January 23, 2012
Idk about that.
If Roy could get his hands on Jose, he has good clinch takedowns and would probably overpower Aldo. On top, Roy has great pressure and Aldo would have a really hard time escaping and surviving.
ElliotMatheny - January 23, 2012
Hey! We haven't seen you in a while.
Sugel Mendoza - January 23, 2012
Yeah, my old laptop fizzled out.
Just got my new one in the mail today! Heyooo
ElliotMatheny - January 23, 2012
All this time I was under the assumption that you left BE in shame.
After all, I would too after a futile attempt to fade psychoblack.
Sugel Mendoza - January 23, 2012
Haha
I still maintain that psychoblack is a highly fadable individual.
ElliotMatheny - January 23, 2012
No he is not. In believing that he can be, you're only fading yourself.
Now if you would be so kind as to,
Sugel Mendoza - January 23, 2012
That’s a huge if.
They’re on different planet in terms if speed and mobility.
I could see Jose dancing around Roy for 20 minutes and then beating the gassed chubby man viciously.
TheFilt - January 23, 2012
wow
I need some lunch and a nap.
They’re on different planets in terms of speed and mobility.
I could see Jose dancing around Roy for 20 minutes and then beating the gassed, chubby man viciously.
TheFilt - January 23, 2012
Roy has very good stamina, though.
I could maybe see Aldo on his bike, trying to wear Roy down with round kicks and speedy combos, but he would REALLY have to watch out for Nelson’s big OHR, and basically never get caught in a clinch situation.
Roy has at least 5 inches and around 100 lbs on Jose.
ElliotMatheny - January 23, 2012
not really
Roy has good HW stamina fighting at his own pace.
Its not even comparable.
Roy’s size advantage comes at speed disadvantage that would essentially make it impossible for him to catch a man who is way too fast for other elite FW’s.
TheFilt - January 23, 2012
Are we seriously dissecting a matchup between Jose Aldo and Roy Nelson?
And Roy could do a shooting star press and knock Aldo out. Even if he misses, the shockwave would destroy everything in a 1 mile radius.
Sugel Mendoza - January 23, 2012
lol
Eliot and I have a long history of silly, fun debates.
TheFilt - January 23, 2012
Good having you back
btw
TheFilt - January 23, 2012
Agreed, but
in a broom closet, I’ll take Roy…
The American Ronin - January 23, 2012
Lets be real
Roy Nelson would be undefeated if his fight purse consisted of a six month supply of Burger King.
discoandherpes - January 23, 2012
Exactly!
The American Ronin - January 23, 2012
Yep
If the space was small enough, Roy all day.
But even in the WEC cage I think Aldo would run circles around him.
TheFilt - January 23, 2012
Yep
Think Spiderman vs. The Blob…
The American Ronin - January 24, 2012
I came to post this, or rec.
spectaa - January 23, 2012
maybe he meant that Overeem’s only path to victory is to grow to 50 ft tall then step on Cigano.
thuggis - January 23, 2012
The big he is talking about regarding Cigano, I think is more about his skill and place in the division. Reem hasn’t faced anyone at HW as big, in skill and stature, as Junior.
memitim - January 23, 2012 via mobile
I don't know if he was being literal necessarily
Or maybe he meant that even though Overeem is bigger, stronger, more explosive it’s not going to be enough to beat JDS.
discoandherpes - January 23, 2012
Yeah like big=good …that’s how I perceived it
Afrotikiman - January 23, 2012 via mobile
Not how I perceived it but it makes a lot more sense that way
I found Tatame’s translation software – http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~q/babelizer.php
menckenstein - January 23, 2012
I put in GSP is Me and I got
“The generalized copy ugly of the preference is I”
Then I put that in and I got
“Exposed is I”
HA! That proves it.
discoandherpes - January 23, 2012
You're awesome, did you know that?
dajulzta - January 23, 2012 via Android app
I don’t think he meant literal size
Afrotikiman - January 23, 2012 via mobile
I think JDS takes it, but...
Reem has defeated somebody bigger than JDS. That Brock guy for example.
truck - January 23, 2012
I guess Brock is tiny compared to JDS
TheDreadedMarco - January 23, 2012 via mobile
Maybe he should try looking them over side by side with the eye that Fedor didn't destroy
menckenstein - January 23, 2012
Why even ask training partners what they think?
It gets so old……..
Taiter - January 23, 2012
Seriously
Afrotikiman - January 23, 2012 via mobile
seriously
I disagree that JDS is more complete than Overeem.
JDS is excellent at what he does, striking.
Doesn’t make him a complete fighter.
elmojo - January 23, 2012
Overeem via double underhooks and takedown.
Pandanus - January 23, 2012
But we've seen in MMA that even if you aren't as well rounded as your opponent
If you can enforce your style of fight, you can continue to win.
discoandherpes - January 23, 2012
This is a gross simplification of JDS's talents
He’s now been in, by my count against 3 BJJ black belts, and 2 elite level college wrestlers, and nobody has ever been able to put him on the ground for more than a few seconds. JDS has great hips, a great base, and a BJJ style ideally suited to the scrambles and escapes he needs to keep the fight where he wants it.
This idea that he’s just a one-dimensional striker is garbage and needs to die.
Dave Strummer - January 23, 2012
This
just because he never has to use his other talents, doesn’t mean they aren’t there
alxn - January 23, 2012
Goes for both guys
TheFilt - January 23, 2012
Yeah
Overeem is pretty well balanced too, though I don’t think he’s demonstrated the level of TDD and scramble that JDS has shown.
The truth about this fight, is that it almost certainly will take place entirely standing, but neither guy would be where he is, if he didn’t have more in his arsenal than good striking.
Dave Strummer - January 23, 2012
I think they're equally well-rounded
as JDS hasn’t shown he has the submission game that Alistair has either.
TheFilt - January 23, 2012
Many emphasize the Reem's striking
but forget that around half of his wins are by submission (not just to strikes either) and that he placed in the European ADCC circuit. JDS has his work cut out for him, but this fight will rock!
dajulzta - January 23, 2012 via Android app
Literally every time Rogan and Goldberg discuss JDS they mention his boxing skills. It gives many observers the impression that he has nothing else to offer. Rogan does this whole diatribe about how JDS has one great skill and it’s so much better than any of his opponents that it makes up for his other “alleged” deficiencies. We haven’t had much of a chance to see JDS in the ground game because he’s so difficult to put on his back. He’s more athletic and physically strong than most people realize and it helps him keep balance shrug off opponents to keep distance.
mjbaze - January 23, 2012
Hmmm
Jiu Jitsu brown belt, excellent takedowns and takedown defense, speed, strength and good footwork, yep definitely not complete…
juanchoD - January 23, 2012 via mobile
WHAT THE HELL IS HE TALKING ABOUT
CVD - January 23, 2012
Clearly Overeem needs to move up to Rumbleweight
SSreporters - January 23, 2012
I chortled out loud reading this
Roman727 - January 23, 2012
How about Apple Crumbleweight?
Andy Anderson - January 23, 2012
Peach Cobblerweight?
NickRingp4pGOAT - January 24, 2012
Overeem not big enough? id say hes too big as stamina becomes an issue with that size
terzergoss - January 23, 2012
I think alot of people mistaking what he meant by "He's not big enough"
40 Cal. - January 23, 2012
Yes
Afrotikiman - January 23, 2012 via mobile
Yep
SentientAndroid - January 23, 2012
yeah…what is so hard to understand about that?
phantom5691 - January 23, 2012
The only loss in JDS's career
Was to Joaquim Ferreira, a 5’11" Light Heavyweight.
BVandDietPepsi - January 23, 2012
not big enough?
I keep waiting for Rick James to appear and say “cocaine is a hell of a drug”
filo bedo - January 23, 2012 via mobile
Evidence...
…of too many concussions of Nog. He’s just talking out his ass and not his brains.
TrailerParkTrash - January 23, 2012 via mobile
Brett Rogers is pretty big too I think
its a weird statement, but c’mon, Nog is basically like JDS’s second dad. What do we expect?
Dave Strummer - January 23, 2012
bullshit
from a homophobe, reem cud lose of course, but size wont b the determining factor if that comes to pass.
rohedron - January 23, 2012
yes exactly.
What?
Body Triangle - January 23, 2012
oh wait i get it now.
Body Triangle - January 23, 2012
To be fair,
I think Nogueira would also pick against such legendary big men such as “Big Country” Bryan Reeves and Zaza Pachulia. That is to say, I think he’s saying that no amount of size is great enough to overcome the skill gap he believes separates Cigano and Alistair.
OldBoomBap - January 23, 2012
don’t underestimate Zaza’s elbow game
alxn - January 23, 2012
brazilians gonna brazilian...?
gxc - January 23, 2012
I think something is getting lost in translation here… Either that, or Nog has gotten hit in the head a few too many times
kick_puncher - January 23, 2012
I think what Nog was trying to say is that Overeem, who is known for being big, would have to be 9 feet tall and a 500 lbs of muscle to have a chance with Dos Santos
terzergoss - January 23, 2012
this
Rob Young - January 23, 2012
Yea.
Loot - January 23, 2012
Coming from a guy who tried to feed a carrot to a bus (or pet it, not sure which one he was)
I’ll take this with a liberal helping of salt.
Rob Young - January 23, 2012
oh and on a serious note
Nog is acknowledging that Reem has gotten much bigger since the PRIDE days, but no matter how big he gets, he won’t be big enough to beat JDS. He’s not being literal here. The “not big enough” part is being taken a bit out of context here.
Rob Young - January 23, 2012
Wait, hold the phone! A fighter thinks his training partner’s next opponent will not be able to defeat him!?
Zachary Kater - January 23, 2012
I wish we had more trainers like Pudzianowski’s boxing coach.
castleeb - January 23, 2012
The Pud has a boxing coach?!
Really?! Wow. I always assumed he just had . . . well . . . steroids
Mattyjudo - January 23, 2012 via Android app
Actually that's unfair of me
The man is a green belt in karate after all . . .
Mattyjudo - January 23, 2012 via Android app
Isn't that something?
Sweet Scientist - January 23, 2012
Just going to echo what others have said. It seemed to me like Nog was saying “not big enough” like he was talking about his heart, character, all around skill…something of that nature.
Or he was just saying that JDS needs to go to Japan and fight Godzilla. That’s a possibility.
Kaleb Kelchner - January 23, 2012
According to whatever this says…
Reem visited the Blackzillians, is that good enough?
Zachary Kater - January 23, 2012
He probably meant that Overeem won’t be able to bully JDS around…
Shnak - January 23, 2012
OVEREEM=OVERRATED!
JDS TKO 3rd
RooBeN - January 23, 2012 via mobile
shogun cracked that chin twice...
What makes anyone think overeem can take that from JDS?
Sonnenmeister - January 23, 2012 via mobile
Simple bio-physics.
Look at the size of Overeems neck and trap muscles back then. Then take a look at how they look now. Someone’s chin is actually dependent upon (among other things) the strength of the neck muscles to keep the head from snapping around. Overeem’s chin is better now a days because he has a metric asston of more muscle to control his head with.
Cocytus - January 23, 2012
JDS hits harder than Shogun
discoandherpes - January 23, 2012
Absolutely, otherwise JDS wouldn't be in the position he finds himself in today
I think, though, that Overeem has put on enough muscle since his Pride days that the kind of knock outs he was susceptible to then, are greatly diminished today, even vs JDS. Not that its impossible to knock him out, but he’d have to make a few mistakes simultaneously for it to happen.
Cocytus - January 23, 2012
The current Ubereem, with all his new muscles, still got stung badly in K-1 with much thicker gloves. And those muscles help mainly with shots to the chin. A nicely placed blow to the temple or back of the ear can be equally damaging and no amount of muscle helps with those blows.
memitim - January 23, 2012 via mobile
With all the people so clearly biased and in favour of JDS
How can Overreem lose.
UncleMax - January 23, 2012
I believe Mr. Lesnar could help answer that question.
POW - January 23, 2012 via mobile
Hey guys. The two best heavyweight strikers on the planet are going to fight for the heavyweight title. Holy shit.
Still doesn’t give me the chills like Nick Diaz vs. Carlos Condit, but it’s almost there.
Kaleb Kelchner - January 23, 2012
UFC Primetime is so awesome. But…Carlos Condit really is such a boring dude seemingly.
mountaineers101 - January 23, 2012
No doubt about it, Nick Diaz and team Cesar Gracie are going to carry the Primetime programs. Nothing against nice guys, but Carlos is seemingly free of charisma, the build up to a Condit -GSP fight would be intolerably boring.
sheikybaby - January 23, 2012
Yeah, unfortunately.
I would love to see more of Diaz, training and engaging with his training partners though. The interview with the teacher was completely senseless.
killphil - January 23, 2012
it
was a way of getting Diaz’ legendary 2nd grade photo in, with some context.
rohedron - January 23, 2012
The only thing Overeem is not big enough for
Is a submission wrestling match with a Tyrannosaur.
Uncle Red - January 23, 2012
You leave Sherk out of this!
Shnak - January 23, 2012
Overeem's not the only one who's made that mistake!
Cocytus - January 23, 2012
eh too small
kinda of scrawny
No. Still too small
DayGeaux - January 23, 2012
FTW!!!
thuggis - January 23, 2012
lacks the size to take JDS out of his gameplan
Uncle Red - January 23, 2012
Don't really have the tools to force JDS to fight their kind of fight
Uncle Red - January 23, 2012
From reading the interview in portuguese
What Nog seems to be saying is that Overeem didn’t “grow” enough, as in personal development. He means that he didn’t grow enough as a fighter as to threaten Junior.
Rube Maciel - January 23, 2012
All I know is
I can’t wait for this fight.
IKiIIed007 - January 23, 2012
I don't see JDS taking this
The reem will do what he always does, close the distance absorb the first few shots with his hands up and then counter at the right moment. His patience experience and versatility will be too much to handle. The reem is a stylistic nightmare for JDS
couch-fighter - January 23, 2012
He won't be absorbing shit with his hands.
He will be absorbing JDS uppercuts with his chin. If anything, Junior is a stylistic nightmare for the ream. He’s faster, more accurate, throws combinations and is a better distance fighter.
Warbreezy - January 23, 2012
watch the reem fights
against Saki and Ben Edwards, sorry I love JDS but this one is all about the reem, he will block and then throw kicks, knees hooks and straight punches. The reem hits hard and Junior will fall, the reem is not the same fighter that he was at 2005
couch-fighter - January 23, 2012
This isn't kickboxing
He can’t turtle up like that with 4 oz gloves. What his recent MMA fights where he keeps his kickboxing style guard. Even mediocre strikers like Werdum are able to consistently find his chin. The difference with JDS, when he finds Alistairs chin, he will lend multiple accurate and devastatingly powerful shots.
Warbreezy - January 23, 2012
This again?
I watched that fight and saw Overeem completely disrespecting Werdums striking and waiting for the eventually takedown attempt, which he blocked no problem.
On another note, reem threw like 3 standing punches in the Brock fight. And I’m wondering how his hands are looking these days. When’s this fucking fight happening????
cager - January 24, 2012
Overeem wasn't disrespecting Werdum's striking
He was tired. When Overeem gets tired he lets guy mount offense on him (that’s how he lost to Werdum the first time).
discoandherpes - January 24, 2012
I give Cigano good chances
He has to outdance Overeem and avoid the clinches. If he can do that, he’ll win. If this were K1, I would give him zero chances, because with the big gloves Overeem would be good covered and take him apart with countershots and kicks. But in MMA there is a good chance he connects even though Overeem covers up. I see this as 60-40 for Overeem, don’t think he’ll make a boxing match with JDS and I don’t think JDS will be able to avoid the clinch.
OzzDee - January 23, 2012
‘Overeem has never defeated someone as big as Cigano.’
I think Nog has taken one too many blows to the head.
Redconsensus - January 23, 2012
Saying that he isn’t “big enough” is just his way of saying that no matter how much additional muscle Overeem packs on, he won’t be good enough to take out JDS. You also can’t put muscle on your chin.
mahalie - January 23, 2012
Robust23 - January 23, 2012
Okay
Now I’m starting to believe Big Nog did try to feed that bus a carrot.
TorQus - January 23, 2012 via mobile
I think Nog’s point here is that Overeem’s size will not be a factor. He’s saying that Overeem’s gotten bigger, but he’s not big enough to beat JDS. Sadly, you missed this point, and even more sadly, others followed. Tsk, tsk.
FarmerInTheCity - January 23, 2012
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