Bloody Elbow

John Danaher's Hair - January 23, 2012 reply

that's a bingo

Elstriko - January 24, 2012 via Android app reply

That guy was a goddamn bully...

Poor Micheal lol

Chin Check - January 23, 2012 reply

damn, you guys are better journalists than the establishment. I congratulate you. I hope this makes more waves in the media.

trinidad - January 23, 2012 reply

good catch, Brent

I had a joke about the headline but decided to let it slide.

pdl - January 23, 2012 reply

In the words of the immortal psychoblack

dont care

Chris Groves - January 23, 2012 reply

I'm with you 100% on that one....

Taiter - January 23, 2012 reply

I hope they are paying you a lot for this sounds like a fun job.

" tonight I was organizing Nevada’s boxing payouts for last year, putting together a database for Bad Left Hook"

nickrodamous - January 23, 2012 reply

Nice job putting this together

You can’t just make up figures like that in an argument. That would be like if ESPN said “UFC pays their undercard fighters 40 cents.”

Farthammer - January 24, 2012 reply

Pretty sure Lorenzo never said how far he looked back, just that he looked back..

mcatanoso - January 24, 2012 reply

Lorenzo specifically mentioned the last ESPN card in Vegas

Since the interview was recorded in August that would make this the event he was talking about.

John Nash - January 24, 2012 via mobile reply

Not to mention, there is only one fighter i can see in Nevada in all of 2011 who made less than $300 and he was not on an ESPN show.

Anyway I can get that list of payouts?

John Nash - January 24, 2012 via mobile reply

It’d be a pain in the ass to compile them all into one thing to send. But by end of day tomorrow they’ll all be available on BLH

“I went and looked back…ESPN…do you know what fighters make on ESPN fights? There was a guy who walked away on this last fight in vegas…he walked away with $275 for a four round fight.”

“He walked away”… maybe he means that after all deductibles, insurance, management, agent, etc., he was left with $275 in his pockets. Maybe that’s it?

The documents show all of that stuff and that doesn’t work either.

You mentionned a guy that made $500… after deductibles, $275 in his pockets sounds reasonable for him, no?

I don’t recall Lorenzo naming a specific event, so I’m not sure this coincidence of Brookhouse’s disproves Lorenzo’s unproven point.

bigweeze - January 24, 2012 reply

“I went and looked back…ESPN…do you know what fighters make on ESPN fights? There was a guy who walked away on this last fight in vegas…he walked away with $275 for a four round fight.”

He said "walked away with $275"

Is possible that the actual take home pay for the $500 fighter was around $275 after taxes, SS, etc.?

I just seems silly for Lorenzo to have lied about the amount when he could said $500 and still made his point very well.

Theagenes - January 24, 2012 reply

*is it

Theagenes - January 24, 2012 reply

As stated above, the documents show all that.

No, the documents show the 500 did NOT include the manager and trainer cut. It just shows that promoter didnt pay them directly. He presumably still has to take care of them on them on his own.

Theagenes - January 24, 2012 via mobile reply

Some guys don’t have manager cuts to pay..etc.

Regardless, that’s all stuff Lorenzo wouldn’t know (he wouldn’t KNOW that the guy had $225 other fees to pay) so we’re now in assumption territory and…well…

He may have assumed based on the numbers he sees for the hundreds of fighters fighting under Zuffa… no?

No. You don’t assume that you know how much an 0-1 fighter pays a manager (if he even has one, which he probably doesn’t) or what the deal for that fighter is (some guys will get paid a signing bonus up front if they sign with a promotional company and in exchange take a smaller fight purse..etc). Or assume you know what he would pay to his trainer (who, at a low level could just be the guy’s brother).

If he is assuming, that’s even worse in my eyes. Especially since he presents it as something that he “looked and saw”

I don’t know why there is some need to not accept that Dana White and Lorenzo Fertitta are just as full of shit as every other fight promoter to ever walk the earth.

Well, you’re assuming Lorenzo pulled out a number out of his ass. Wouldn’t the more likely reasoning be that he got his number from somewhere you don’t have access, or that he simply misremembered?

You know Brent, you really seem to have it out for Dana/Lorenzo here… You’ll defend ESPN to no end, but will use the most minute detail to say that Lorenzo “is full of shit just like every other fight promoter to ever walk the earth”. That’s not exactly an unbiased opinion.

I’m not defending ESPN at all. First of all, because fighter pay is not ESPN’s domain. The ESPN piece was poorly researched, that doesn’t mean that any retaliatory statement by the UFC is therefore good.

The pay information he has access to is the same pay information I have access to. There isn’t super secret hidden pay info in Nevada. $275 seems a bit specific to have “misremembered” especially the way he said it.

Yes, I think all fight promoters are full of shit. I’m not sure how that changes anything here.

Fair enough. But him saying $275 when it’s really $500 is no big deal. His overall point still applies. ESPN is in no position to judge the UFC for “only” paying 6k/6k to their undercard guys when they themselves have agreements with promoters to show cards where guys get as little as $500. That point still stands. If ESPN was so offended by fighters only getting 6k/6k to fight, they shouldn’t show any boxing matches where guys make less than that.

But like you said, $275 is way too specific for him to just make it up. He had to see this number somewhere. He had to know some bloggers/writers would double-check this number and so he had to think $275 was a real number. I don’t know if $250 is a real number or not, but I do believe that he thinks it is.

If ESPN was so offended by fighters only getting 6k/6k to fight, they shouldn’t show any boxing matches where guys make less than that.

That’s garbage. You’re talking about guys with losing records vs. guys at the top end of the sport. There’s no monopoly concerns about Friday Night Fights where they’re allowed to control the pay because boxers have no other option. That is a silly point to try to make.

And those guys pulling less than $1,000 on any Friday Night Fights card in Nevada in 2011 were all not US nationals. And the fight game (including the UFC) has always done the thing where they pay guys less on the disclosed forms so that their purses aren’t chewed up by taxes. I.E. Nobuhiro Ishida being paid $35k and losing $11k of it in taxes or Amir Khan making $1.1 million and paying $270k+ in taxes.

I’m not saying that’s definitely what happened, but Razvan Conaju was a guy a lot of people wanted to sign given his Olympic credentials and the fact that he’s roughly the size of a Klitschko. If he really only got $500, after getting $3,000 one fight before I’m pretty sure there’s a larger reason (either his tax situation wasn’t sorted out or he got his pay in a different form).

Guys making 6k/6k in the UFC aren’t exactly at the top end of the sport, at least, they haven’t proven it. They’re prospects the UFC signed in the hopes that they’re good enough to stick around and make them money down the lime.

Anyways. Here’s a question for you Brent, and I hope it doesn’t sound bad because it’s definitely not my intent, but why are you writting for a MMA blog when you seem to enjoy boxing just as much, if not more?

The UFC is the top end of the sport. That’s what I mean.

I love MMA deeply. I also love boxing.

I think MMA fans have a really warped view of boxing business so I like to keep trying to break that down.

Alright. Me, I’ll watch some boxing fights on occasion, but for the most part, I just can’t stand that sport. I’ll watch the first prelim fight of a TUF finale card over just about any boxing fight out there.

ESPN Research

I don’t believe the ESPN piece was poorly researched. . . not that I know what they did to research, only that I KNOW it confirms exactly what I hear, over and over and over and over again, from top managers, agents, and fighters, currently in the UFC.

From that standpoint, my experience, the piece was very accurate.

Rob Maysey - January 26, 2012 reply

To be clear...

Other friday night fight cards in Nevada in 2011:
- May 27 – Lowest purse on the card was Noe Lopez, Jr. at $1,500
- May 6 – Lowest purse on the card was Gilberto Gastelum at $2,000 (he actually walked away with $0.01 because he owed back child support…but that’s not on the promoter…plus the guy has never won a fight and got paid two grand)
- April 29 – Lowest purse on the card was a tie between Yunieski Gonzalez and Glendy Hernadez at $500 a piece…both are Cuban (and undefeated) so I have a feeling there’s more to that story. But again…not $275.
- March 25 – Lowest purse on the card was a 3 way tie at $600…all three guys were foreigners so..notice the theme here?

That’s it. No $275 purses for guys on Friday Night Fights in Nevada in 2011.

Which ignores that comparing UFC fighters to FNF fighters is really insulting to the skills of guys in the UFC.

I don’t understand the talking point from the UFC’s perspective at all. They are saying that UFC fighters, the premier league and top of the line MMA organization, are comparable the the journeymen and nobodies at the bottom of FNF cards. It’s a combination of bad logic and untruths.

pdl - January 24, 2012 reply

^^ THIS **

To be fair, Lorenzo didn’t say a guy made a purse of $275. He said a guy “walked away with” $275…

Are those really all of the boxers that were on the card?

I ask because maybe those are all pro fighters and perhaps the “$275 boxer” was an amateur on the undercard and he wouldn’t be recorded with the pros.

The thing about being an amateur is that you don’t get paid to fight. If you’re being paid to fight on a card like this, you’re a professional.

I can't speak for how things are done in Nevada...

But in Michigan before pro MMA was legalized promoters would sometimes give amateur fighters a few hundred bucks and claim it was to cover their travel expenses(or so I’ve heard secondhand).

I’m not saying that is what happened but it seems plausible.

Variety of things here.
Yes, that does happen with MMA, it happens where I am in Michigan all the time and I’m working to get that outlawed as it’s letting people skirt professional responsibilities for safety to put on cheap shows.

These are professional events run by promotions like Top Rank. There are no amateur fights on the undercard. Even if there were, it’d just make Lorenzo’s point even worse.

But no, this is nothing to do with an amateur fighter

Alright, thanks for the reply.

Seemed like a long shot. Guess Lorenzo is just a master at BS’ing.

Lorenzo is a smart guy.

This was a total bullshit point on a ton of levels and it distracted all of the media from the fact that MMA pay is really pretty terrible at most levels of the sport. It was a damn good politic move.

pdl - January 24, 2012 reply

Fighter pay is pretty good actually

Considering most of the under card guys don’t make Zuffa a lot of money at the end of the day.

yes they do.

they fill out a card that would otherwise sell zero PPVs. would you pay $60 if the only fight on the card was diaz v condit? i wouldn’t. i expect more fights for my money. not to mention that zuffa is also getting paid for the fights that are broadcast on FX and FUEL. that’s real money.

tha dude - January 24, 2012 reply

Guys on the undercard

Usually don’t make the PPV. Maybe one or two fights at the most

True, but one must also consider the longterm as well.

Sometimes a really good fight from the bottom of the card will end up rebroadcasted on ppv. People will want to see more of these guys and then… Long story short: sometimes undercard fighters can potentially boost future sales, player.

dajulzta - January 24, 2012 reply

If they become a star in the future, sure. And if they win and generation interest, their next contract will be for more money. You shouldn’t pay someone for their potential worth.

Would I like to see fighter paid more? Sure, but I’m not outraged that they’re paid the way they are.

I wasn't debating the pay.

3 grand floor is very decent, all things considered. I was just saying that sometimes an undercard scrap can yield benefits every once in a while.

dajulzta - January 24, 2012 via Android app reply

Benefits for the UFC, that is.

dajulzta - January 24, 2012 via Android app reply

I won't disagree there.

On a different point to the issue of UFC pay...

“Timothy Hall, Jr. was 2-10 in his last 12 fights and was paid $2,500 gross for his losing performance…”

What?! How did this guy get over 2 grand with a record like that? I mean, I’d happily get in a ring and get knocked out or beaten up for 12 minutes for cash like that.

I’m just shocked someone who clearly has no business on a professional boxing card was paid that much, especially if the event budget was $100,000 as has been quoted about this site.

roblo - January 24, 2012 reply

I've seen someone paid that amount of money before on another article

But I don’t think it was for FNFs.

I’m sure dudes get paid $275 and under all the time. What I’m saying is that it happened to one guy, on a very small show in all of Nevada pro boxing last year.

Yeah, you’re probably right. I remember seeing that figure and thinking about how low it was, but I can’t for the life of me remember what event it was.

But it was probably a four round fight, and at the end of the day it is hard to compare a virtual unknown competing in a four round fight to an MMA fighter on the under card of a UFC competing in a three round fight.

The documents show any IRS withholding, sanction fees, license fees, other incidentals, manager fees..etc. to show the gross and net pay.

The only guy who really could have come close to $275 is Conaju, who had no deductions from his gross and “walked away” with $500.

What about other shows? Lorenzo may have been looking at another show thinking it was the latest. I don’t know. I don’t understand what the big fuss is. $500 or $275. What’s the difference. The point is that ESPN/whoever promotes these shows vastly under-pay their fighters compared to guys fighting on UFC undercards. That’s the point he was making.

Brent has already posted a list of the pay from all “other friday night fight cards in Nevada in 2011:” And the fuss is that Lorenzo’s claim has been proven false. And it’s a false equivalency because ESPN merely put the fights on television, they do not promote them. It would be like attacking Fox over low pay on UFC cards.

forkboy - January 24, 2012 reply

Looks like $275 guy is a figment of Fertittas imagination. Zuffa have been underpaying guys since day one anyway. Remember TUF 1 when White broke the news to the fighters that, oh, by the way, you’re fighting for nothing? And then went on that ‘’Do you wanna be a fuckin’ fighter’’ rant when a couple of the guys suggested that might not be absolutely fair?
That there are guys who will fight for $3,000 to show for the chance to appear on a UFC card doesn’t mean it’s right, it means Zuffa have a virtual monopoly on MMA and are taking full advantage of the fact.

Here we go again with the monopoly BS… if guys aren’t happy taking $6k to fight in the UFC, there are plenty other orgs out there… so just stop it.

No there are not ‘’plenty other orgs out there’’. Thats the point! So just stop it.

Yes there are. Bellator, MFC, Shine, Shark, Titan, M-1, One FC, Instinct, whatever. There are hundreds others. These are all shows where prospects or guys who couldn’t quite cut it in the UFC can fight and make decent living…

booom exactly thank you shnak

Mac Marley - January 24, 2012 reply

A decent living must mean different things to me and you.

So… you’ve moved the goal posts, now? First, you were saying the UFC had a monopoly because there were no other organizations to fight in… and now, you’re saying these other organizations do not pay enough compared to the UFC? And how is that the UFC’s fault, exactly?

right and last i checked bellator pays ok. i think your reaching a bit here the UFC does alot for there fighters to be in the sport their in. MMA still doesnt even get the respect that even boxing has in terms of acceptance and in coverage and the UFC still runs IMO alot smoother and better than the promotions in that sport i mean did you see how the fx show looked and i mean the whole thing undercard and all. a decent living as a fighter i think would be having my bills paid, kids fed if any, and that i dont have to worry about insurance for health and i can focus on training and the UFC does all that and also makes sure they put money back into their brand making it look better than the rest. i know their funded by a casino family but damn they defiantly keep their stuff in tact atleast business wise idk with dana lol why cant other places just follow the blueprint IMO bellator has probably the most potential to actually do well if they’d just stick to improving their situation and not getting comfortable and trying to compete with someone right now. build up is all im saying how is it the UFC’s fault they dont pay well enough

Mac Marley - January 24, 2012 reply

Gross said on his podcast that a lot of managers aren’t happy with Bellator contracts.

That said, maybe they’ll improve under Viacom.

Unhappy over the pay or that Bellator fighters are locked into unreasonably lengthy timeframes, the champion clause etc?

UncleMax - January 24, 2012 reply

I believe he said they’re seen as “restrictive,” which I would take to mean timeframes and maybe the champions clause.

Shine and Titan aren’t exactly Pride, Strikeforce or Affliction are they? They’re Vauxhall conference compared to the Premier league in soccer. I’m not blaming Zuffa for having no competition, i’m blaming them for taking advantage of it to the level they are.
Remember when BJ Penn had his differences with Zuffa and made a very good living fighting for K1? Or when Randy Couture could look to make a fight with Fedor after a dispute with White? If a guy falls out with Dana White now, there isn’t that option.

Strikeforce and affliction are dead.

It isn’t the UFC’s fault that no one else can afford to pay people what sheikybaby thinks is reasonable. Maybe there isn’t enough demand in the world for that many fighters to get that much money. Eventually people will figure that out.

Phildo - January 24, 2012 reply

Vauxhall?

Wow, that’s old school. The Conference has seen three or four names since then.

But I think Phildo has a point, especially in terms of the global market. Zuffa isn’t putting Japanese promoters out of business.

SentientAndroid - January 24, 2012 reply

Wait a minute

I thought that before there were negotiations for Peterson to fight Khan the first time, Peterson turned down the fight because he wanted more money. So he fought another guy and THEN he was able to renegotiate a fight with Khan for $300,000 or something like that. I recall hearing the anouncement team talking about that during the Peterson/Khan fight before both fighters entered the ring. That link is showing that Peterson’s gross purse was 12k. Did I hear wrong or is the 12k the only thing that’s allowed to be officially disclosed and he really did make a lot more?

From Bad Left Hook:

The main event is an IBF eliminator between Lamont Peterson (28-1-1, 14 KO) and Victor Cayo (26-1, 18 KO). Peterson has been to the big dance before, losing to Timothy Bradley and battling Victor Ortiz to a draw in his two biggest fights. He’s proven to be a competitive fighter on the big stage, but some of the business decisions made since the Ortiz fight in December have definitely been questionable. Peterson turned down $300,000 to fight Amir Khan (which lead to Khan vs McCloskey in April), and now finds himself fighting for low five figures on Friday Night Fights, hoping to get a shot at Khan, who picked up the IBF belt from Zab Judah last Saturday.

SentientAndroid - January 24, 2012 reply

Thanks!

I thought the documented pay was from the Peterson/Khan fight, but it was from the Peterson/Cayo fight.

Ah, no. Peterson/Khan was in DC, I don’t have that pay sheet

Khan got $1.1 million for that, with Peterson getting $500,000. For a fight that wasn’t PPV either in the US or UK.

Yeah, I know what they got, I just meant I didn’t have the full sheet with the payout breakdown.

Yeah, they got nice pay. Khan got just under $1.1 million for the Judah fight and because of not being a US citizen he ended up having to pay over $270,000 in taxes.

Plus Amirs golden handshake with Reebok comes in handily. Over $2 million for two fights for a guy who hasn’t proven he’s number one in his weight class. Shame the ESPN guy didn’t have the presence of mind to ask Fertitta who the $250 guy was.

that fight was also

bankrolled by hbo. even the Ufc deal with fox comes up short to hbo bankrolling fighters.

Elstriko - January 24, 2012 via Android app reply

I'll never get it

The fuss over fighter pay…where does the expectation that anyone has a right to criticize the UFC over what they pay come from? It’s entertainment, pure and simple; the product produced is intangible, and while there are precedents for compensating entertainers based on revenue, MMA is unique and is not an apple to apple.

The UFC under Zuffa pays their fighters what they think the fighters are worth, and as the most successful business model for MMA, they seem to know the most about what works for the business and what doesn’t.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but there are no laws or mandates on what the UFC must pay a fighter…so the amounts they’ve come up with, the $6k to fight, $6k to win, is completely voluntary on their part. The bonuses and the healthcare? Again, what about offering these makes the UFC villains?

In my eyes, the bonuses for promoting the fight, for putting on an exciting fight, for having the most spectacular knockout or submission of the night…those bonuses are above and beyond the contract and are quite substantial…and the ENCOURAGE better performance. The UFC has awarded more than one Fight of the Night, IIRC, meaning they’ve paid out and rewarded fighters double what even fan expectations would be, based purely on the UFC’s own past behavior. There is no guarantee that a Fight of the Night will even be awarded, much less two of them in one night. How can you criticize that? I sincerely believe those bonuses have played a very large part in making the UFC fights what they are today; I can’t even count the interviews where fighters have mentioned that they are gunning for one or more of those bonuses. It’s a hell of an incentive, and an excellent example of using positive reinforcement to influence behavior.

Fighters don’t “deserve” more flat pay; entertainers have to earn their money, every dollar of it, and that is that. No one forces them to train, forsake other income, support their families by doing what they do; like any high reward career, there are high risks. Try being a writer for a living if you think fighters are ripped off.

Was that just a weird rant? Because nowhere did I criticize fighter pay…

Yeah, it was

Because I’ve read too many articles about what the ESPN piece and the subsequent fallout.

Didn’t mean to direct that at you and this article, just sort of throwing out there my exhaustion over the whole topic.

Lorenzo made an inaccurate statement about a recent event on a specific promotion, and he is to blame for not fact-checking. His speculation weakens his position, but IMO, does not strengthen ESPN’s.

Professional boxers starting out receive 1/10th the pay that UFC fighters start out with, and that is fact, not speculation; while Lorenzo made an error in representing the fight in question, the point is still valid, that boxing makes more money, has been around a lot longer, and is the nearest model to compare to MMA, yet ESPN is not taking exception to Boxing.

If the UFC fighter you’re thinking of is James Toney or Brock Lesnar, i suppose you’re right, you’re way off if not though.

Professional boxers starting out receive 1/10th the pay that UFC fighters start out with

Well, a professional boxer just starting out isn’t the same as a UFC fighter given that, other than James Toney, I don’t think anyone in the modern era has debuted in the UFC.

Here is a list of the guys who made more than 12k (the 6/6 UFC format) for a single fight in boxing, in Nevada alone, in 2011:
- Fernando Montiel ($250,000)
- Nonito Donaire ($350,000)
- Mike Jones ($75,000)
- Jesus Soto Karas ($75,000)
- Mike Alvarado ($20,000) & ($50,000) & ($75,000)
- Brandon Rios ($125,000)
- Miguel Acosta ($125,000)
- Walter Fields ($25,000)
- Michael Grant ($25,000)
- Joel Casamayor ($25,000) & ($100,000)
- Miguel Cotto ($1,000,000)
- Yuri Foreman ($100,000)
- Pawel Wolak ($75,000)
- Miguel Vasquez ($150,000)
- Tom Zbikowski ($50,000)
- Ricardo Mayorga ($50,000)
- Leo Zappavinga ($65,000)
- Erislandy Lara ($15,000)
- Carlos Molina ($13,000) & ($12,500)
- Vivian Harris ($15,000)
- Erik Morales ($250,000) & ($350,000)
- Marcos Maidana ($500,000)
- Michael Katsidis ($200,000)
- Robert Guerrero ($125,000)
- Paul Malignaggi ($75,000)
- Jose Cotto ($30,000)
- Danny Garcia ($20,000)
- Nate Campbell ($35,000)
- Rakhim Chakhkiev ($25,000)
- James Kirkland ($35,000) & ($22,500)
- Nobuhiro Ishida ($35,000)
- Allen Conyers ($12,500)
- Rodel Mayol ($13,000)
- Jesse Brinkley ($25,000)
- Peter Quillin ($20,000) & ($17,500)
- Bernabe Concepcion ($20,000)
- Manny Pacquiao ($6,000,000) & ($6,000,000)
- Shane Mosley ($3,950,000)
- Wilfredo Vazquez ($165,000)
- Jorge Arce ($125,000)
- Ray Narh ($22,500)
- Kelly Pavlik ($270,000)
- Alfonso Lopez ($40,000)
- Sharif Bogere ($15,000) & ($15,000)
- Ray Beltran ($12,500)
- Seth Mitchell ($15,000) & ($20,000)
- Cris Arreola ($25,000)
- Kendrick Releford ($12,000)
- Walter Estrada ($14,000)
- Alejandro Perez ($15,000)
- Diego Magdeleno ($15,000) & ($20,000)
- Zab Judah ($500,000)
- Amir Khan ($1,072,500)
- Jason LeHoullier ($17,500)
- Gary Russell Jr. ($15,000)
- Eric Estrada ($12,000)
- Lamont Peterson ($12,000)
- Danny Santiago ($35,000)
- Joseph Agbeko ($130,000)
- Abner Mares ($300,000)
- Floyd Mayweather ($25,000,000)
- Victor Ortiz ($2,000,000)
- Pablo Cano ($100,000)
- Jesse Vargas ($100,000)
- Said Quali ($28,000)
- Carson Jones ($12,000)
- Marco Periban ($15,000)
- Anthony Carolla ($15,000)
- Dion Savage ($15,000)
- Jose Manuel Lopez ($30,000)
- Toshiaki Nishioka ($70,000)
- Rafael Marquez ($100,000)
- Ramon Gonzalez ($30,000)
- Omar Soto ($15,000)
- Hector Munoz ($18,000)
- Christopher Martin ($12,500)
- Mercito Gesta Moya ($20,000)
- Juan Manuel Marquez (5,000,000)
- Timothy Bradley ($1,025,000)
- Luis Cruz Soto ($35,000)
- Juan Burgos ($22,500)
- Breidis Prescott ($30,000)

that's 82 guys, by the way

With 28 different guys making six figures for a single fight

I get that boxers can make a lot of money…but what are they making when they first turn pro, on average? The UFC has made it known what that amount is, and it appears to be ten times what a boxer signing his first fight will make.

Entry level to mid level UFC fighters may not be making a living by fighting, but they seem to have a lot more options for earning at the same time. So many MMA fighters teach, own gyms, or even coach in other sports. Those are occupations that still allow them to train and build on their MMA career.

I just don’t see why other commenters think the UFC should be paying career level wages to anyone that is not a draw, a name level fighter, and that seemed to be the aim of the ESPN piece, too, without looking at the same situation in boxing.

I also think there is a big difference between an investigative journalist not fact-checking and an interviewee speaking off the top of their head. Given time to research, Lorenzo could easily find examples of fighters making only hundreds for their fights, which is the way I took his comment.

But again, entry level UFC fighters are not the same as a boxer in his first fight. That’s just…not the same.

Other than the rare TUF fighter or a special case like Toney, these are guys who have established a pro career before signing with the UFC.

You can choose to take his comment that way. But when he specifically says that he looked at the numbers for the Friday Night Fights card and found a fighter who only took home $275…that’s not what he said.

I guess it is really hard to compare the two, because I couldn’t really tell you what boxing promotion is the “major leagues” versus which ones are not.

There really isn’t a “college to UFC” model, either.

There just are no good “apples to apples” professional sports to compare the UFC to.

Correct!

Mitrione started in the UFC. Just sayin’…

Not a fair example

Mitrione had some NFL experience to his resume, so he wasn’t a complete gamble. I don’t know if TUF guys get paid? So, he may have had the show to boost his contract negotiations.

I know. All I’m saying is that some guys make their debut in the UFC. Amir’s another example. Both are TUF guys, but still.