Bloody Elbow

Dan is the last person that should be talking about steroids, what is he born with one nut? .. TRT abuser.. just like Chael

adisban1 - January 26, 2012 reply

It is woefully inaccurate to call someone a TRT abuser when they use it within the predefined procedural guidelines. That’s like saying a guy sipping a beer after work is a sloppy drunken alcoholic.

castleeb - January 26, 2012 reply

Lol

Sure.

warren305 - January 26, 2012 reply

We have no idea if they use it within the guidelines at all leading up to the fight, All we know is the levels fall into the accepted area before they fight.Athletic commissions do not have the money to monitor a athlete on TRT 24/7 leading up to a fight. Also lets be honest Athletes even in there 40’s should be some of the last people on earth who have low T levles. The reason most Athletes need TRT is becasue of prior PED usage. It killed of all there testosterone.

how do you know that?

There is a certain percentage of people that just have low testosterone. We hear about all the mma fighters (or some of them, at least now) because they find out about it, get it treated because it is beneficial to them, and move on. People act like it’s some fake epidemic in mma, but that’s only because it gets talked about with mma fighters, if your mailman has low t, you won’t know that he does or that he uses trt (if he does).

I don’t know that I go buy the odds and the odds say when a athlete has low T it’s probably do to PED usage. And low-t is not as rampit as some Doctors would like you to think it is. Athletes who never abused PED’s should have better TRT levels then you average human also. I actually see nothing wrong with PED’s,TRT,Blood doping,etc. I just know the stories most Athletes and fighters tell are Bull$hit

WADA

has a protocol for determining whether the deficiency is caused by prior usage or other reasons, but as far as I know, just like with MMA, the NFL, NBA, MLB and the like don’t have such a requirement.

http://www.andrologyaustralia.org/library/TestosteroneDeficiency_Factsheet.pdf

There is a certain percentage of people that just have low testosterone

A surprisingly large number of them seem to be very muscular mixed martial artists, a disproportionately high number, some would say.

How many are there really? Out of the thousands upon thousands of MMA fighters?

How many are there really? Out of the thousands upon thousands of MMA fighters?

This is a fair criticism of what I wrote, and I concede to you that I have far from carried out the sufficient research into TRT usage rates amongst fighters to draw any solid conclusions about disproportionate usage levels.

How many are there really? Out of the thousands upon thousands of MMA fighters?

However, I’m not sure that there are thousands and thousands of professional, or semi-professional fighters.

There are SO MANY regional and town/city based MMA promotions all over the world, there’s got to easily be thousands of MMA fighters out there. Even in the UFC there have only been a few cases of TRT exposed, out of hundreds of fighters. I agree the cases with Duffee, Nate and Chael are suspicious to say the least (gonna give Hendo the benefit of the doubt), and TRT abuse is an issue worth discussing, I just get upset when we play the “numbers” game in regards to PEDs. It’s a lot of conjecture, grandstanding, and band-wagon jumping. I go with the established evidence taht comes to light, nothing less; and I’m not talking about the idiotic “look test.”

There are SO MANY regional and town/city based MMA promotions all over the world, there’s got to easily be thousands of MMA fighters out there.

Thousands of amateurs, yes, but I’m not sure about thousands of pros/semi-pros. I’m just saying that I’m uncertain.

It’s a lot of conjecture, grandstanding, and band-wagon jumping. I go with the established evidence that comes to light, nothing less

I can hardly argue with this!

It doesn’t take much to be a “pro” MMA fighter. Just go to wikipedia, look up even a well known fighter’s record, and towards the bottom you will see the names of a lot of promotions you’ve probably never heard of. Those are all “pro” organizations, they’re just very small.

Umm..

We rank nearly 2500, every week.

JCS_FM - January 26, 2012 reply

Say what now?

You rank 2500 new fighters every week?

Or you do a weekly ranking of a pool of around 2500 fighters?

Luke Nelson - January 26, 2012 reply

The latter

JCS_FM - January 26, 2012 reply

you can’t say it’s disproportionate because you don’t know all the numbers.

Not every mailman that has low T is going to know, and the one’s that do know, might not get tested because they might not think it’s worthwile. If he does get treated, he isn’t going to tell you.

Every mma fighter with low T (at least a the big league level) is going to know about it, and get it treated because it will make them better at their job.

that should say that not every mailman with low t is going to get it treated.

you can’t say it’s disproportionate because you don’t know all the numbers.

I deliberately didn’t actually say that.

Every mma fighter with low T (at least a the big league level) is going to know about it, and get it treated because it will make them better at their job.

Fair enough.

exactly, your link says it all, maybe 1 out of every 200 to 300 males under 60 should need TRT, Some Doctors who make $ now of TRT would like you to think the odds are about 1 out of every 2.

arbitrary

these so called procedural guidelines are arbitrary, incomplete, and FOS

Moreover, the cause is often overtraining or previous steroid use.

This whole thing opens a can of worms. This whole thing should be banned PERIOD, even historical use should be cause for lifetime ban.

Marc Gunn - January 26, 2012 reply

This whole thing opens a can of worms. This whole thing should be banned PERIOD, even historical use should be cause for lifetime ban.

Even the Olympics allow TRT, not to mention the NFL, NBA and MLB. To the best of my knowledge, only the Olympics have criteria in place to ensure that the cause wasn’t previous usage, although Marquardt may have had something similar, don’t recall at the moment.

Lifetime ban?

Would you say that if your favorite fighter needed TRT later in his career?

discoandherpes - January 26, 2012 reply

horsecrap

Hendo’s an injector. The legal injections argument roughly equates to juicing that happened in baseball during the 90s. at that time the world turned a blind eye when people were hitting 70 HRs a year because it was so much fun to watch.

because THendo’s got a doctor helping him doesn’t make it any better. he needs TRT? great. pick a different profession. let’s see how long he keeps the injections up after he retires.

billium - January 26, 2012 reply

You do realize

that the option for an exemption to go on TRT is available in all major sports, don’t you?

Its that stupid 'Americans with Disabilities Act'

Its considered unconstitutional to deny a person his ability to make a living because of a disability that can be reasonably accommodated for.

TheFilt - January 26, 2012 reply

I know that there are some,

including Marquardt and a PGA player 2-3 years ago iirc, who have tried to take that position, but I am not aware of any cases based on that going to trial.

The Lethal Haze - January 26, 2012 reply

The ADA

is the reason that TRT is legal in major sports.

I was just kinda backing what you were saying.

TheFilt - January 26, 2012 reply

Do you know if ADHD medicine is allowed. That would seem to help fighters get an edge.

DayGeaux - January 26, 2012 reply

and cut weight

Aderol was originally a diet pill before an ADHD treatment.

some is banned. Tim credeur had to pull out of a fight because he didn’t stop early enough.

baseball saw a severe increase exemptions after they banned amphetamines, I’m not sure if mma offers exemptions for that.

Phildo - January 26, 2012 via Android app reply

WADA is subject to an american law?

The American Ronin - January 27, 2012 reply

Thanks,

I honestly had never looked into it and didn’t realize that was the driver behind it being approved…

What a coincidence!

Hendo’s an aging MMArtist and he needs TRT……….. duh. naw it’s not intended to boost his peformance…….. duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

billium - January 26, 2012 reply

duhhh

it’s medicinal man…….duhhh. headaches, you know…….duhhhhh

billium - January 26, 2012 reply

He's taking it for night blindness. Leave the man alone.

NickRingp4pGOAT - January 26, 2012 reply

um.. i highly doubt that Dan is an abuser.

Not only considering his suggestion of year round testing but the fact that he is over 40 years old and has a difficult time getting past 205. Nothing suggesting from his body says that he has ever abused steroids and trust me, signs would be appearing by now.

lukustra - January 26, 2012 reply

No they would not,It’s like saying I can tell if someone has Aids buy looking at them, You have that stero type in your head of what a PED user should look like and thats just not the case, Same with all drugs, Not every perosn who uses Meth is going to look like a poster boy for White trash and have no teeth eather

I would actually bet my House that Dan has used PED’s in his career or still is, probably the later actually. It’s amazing how many Athletes use them, Dennis Hallman’s #‘s of fighters on PED’s I bet is actually higher then 50%. All Athletes actually its higher

Percentages are so dumb. If I threw out a wild guess that 86.84% of all fighters in MMA use PEDs some would agree, some would argue higher, and some would argue lower. Any number anyone throws out in reference to how many fighters are using will elicit all three of these responses, so can we please just stop?

Just look at the number of fighrers and athletes in every sport pissing hot, it goes up every year.

That’s an indicator, but not concrete evidence. I agree it seems likely the actual number is probably high, but there is no way to quantify it. You can’t say that my prior statement’s not true; it happens EVERY TIME numbers are thrown out. There’s just no way to know FOR SURE under the current established regulatory system. That’s an indisputable fact. Any estimate is pure conjecture. Again, that’s just a fact, not an argument.

your 100% correct Machael about the % we just don’t know the true number and never will. I hate to say this the way I look at sports now and this includes MMA is they are all on it.

That’s a valid opinion and I’m fine with it. I’d literally rather just have people say “I think all MMA fighrters use PEDs” instead of “90% of fighters use PEDs.” I’m not dumb; I think a lot of fighters use because there is a huge incentive to do so, I just don’t have a real idea of how many because I can’t know, and neither can anyone else. It’s just dumb when people like Dennis Halman and BJ Penn throw out figures with no sources other than what they’ve “seen and heard from people.” Fighters train in facilities scattered all over the world, and in different organizations, so there is literally no possible way any fighter would know how what percentage of fighters use. Sorry to rant but this stuff drives me crazy.

I love the fact that you're just casually accusing people of cheating.

discoandherpes - January 26, 2012 reply

FALSE!

adisban1 is talking out of his ass.

RolloTomasi - January 26, 2012 reply

If you don’t like TRT use in MMA blame ACs, not Dan Henderson.

He was on steroids in PRIDE, huh

Whenever I hear fighters discuss steroids

I can’t help but think that people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

Judge not, lest ye be judged, and all that jazz.

The American Ronin - January 27, 2012 reply

You'd think Dan "discoverTRTafterlosingtoRampage&Anderson" Henderson would avoid steroid talk

warren305 - January 26, 2012 reply

It's funny

how people don’t understand the difference between hormone treatment and androgenous anabolic steroids. All I can say is that you should research things and formulate an educated opinion before you voice it in public.

ElliotMatheny - January 27, 2012 reply

Dan, you couldn't even compete without artificial testosterone

So STFU.

YPG - January 26, 2012 reply

I have mixed opinions about this

On one hand, Hendo is 41, therefore, it is much more understandable for a man of his age to undergo TRT compared to the young diesel tanks such as Todd Duffy whos pheromones you can sense from a mile away.

On the other hand, I think anybody whos body requires TRT should not be competing in MMA due to the high level demand of testosterone your body requires to efficiently process the lactic acid that gets released when your adrenaline starts to go. (See rounds 4 & 5 of his fight with Shogun to help understand)

With all that being said, Henderson still shouldn’t be taking shots at Vitor when he knows he most likely would not be competing without the aid of an external substance to allow him to even fight at this point in his career.

MrTechnique420 - January 26, 2012 reply

On the other hand, I think anybody whos body requires TRT should not be competing in MMA due to the high level demand of testosterone your body requires to efficiently process the lactic acid that gets released when your adrenaline starts to go.

What about female fighters? Yes, I know women have testosterone, but not nearly as much as men.

Keren - January 26, 2012 reply

To be honest, thats a question I have asked myself quite a few times, females typically have about 5% accumalative testosterone in their bodies compared to a males 10%. Now i’m no doctor, (yet) but from what i’ve researched, it has to do with the bioavailability as well as the testosterone being more tightly bound to certain muscles and hemoglobin molecules in your blood due to higher levels of estrogen production.

I know this probably doesn’t give a definite translation of how it differs from men to women, but I know that the more testosterone your body has, the more bioavailability it’s given. Meaning men have a higher tendancy to “gas” due to having more testosterone which allows even higher levels of lactic acid to be stored in your body.

MrTechnique420 - January 26, 2012 reply

Gassing =/= lactic acidosis, and neither is primarily caused by testosterone levels, although hyperlactatemia does affect testosterone levels (increasing test with increased lactic acid to a point, then decreasing as lactic acid levels further increase)

I am not a doctor either, but my understanding of the process is very different than what you describe. IIRC, studies have shown that the relationship works the other way – that increased levels of lactic acid cause a corresponding increase in testosterone levels (and growth hormone as well). This info came from a natural bodybuilder I have work with before, but who had accumulated vast research on all natural boosters he could find.

As far as lactic acid, simply put it is the normal result of the glucose breakdown cycle. In athletes lactic acidosis is a result of an oxygen debt and an overwhelming of the body’s buffering abilities to remove, leading to a build-up.

What I would guess happened to Henderson before (and Carwin against Lesnar) was a mix of things including hyperlactatemia, post-cut electrolyte imbalances and, for Carwin at least, an “adrenaline dump” and subsequent adrenaline deficit.

Valid point.

And would women be allowed to use TRT methods to the same limits as men?

Is so, then there would be a hell of a lot more women mixed martial artists walking around looking like Cyborg.

@KatanaClothing - January 26, 2012 reply

No, a woman’s range would have to be within the accepted range of testosterone for women.

The American Ronin - January 27, 2012 reply

I’m glad it’s not up to you :)

I’m sure your not alone :)

MrTechnique420 - January 26, 2012 reply

RTFA

“Of course, Henderson’s situation is doctor prescribed and he has suggested in the past that any fighter who is on TRT be monitored throughout the year to ensure that they are not going above normal levels”

ihateemo - January 26, 2012 reply

Dan needs an interpreter now?

Steve1717 - January 26, 2012 reply

"Brazilian MMA site Tatame"

merryprankster - January 26, 2012 reply

I don't follow hockey anymore... did that player really take a hack at his goalie?

RECE ROCK - January 26, 2012 reply

I think that's Keith Ballard and Tomas Vokoun?

He ALLEGEDLY meant to strike the goal post there but cracked Vokoun pretty good.

http://mmaweekly.com/vitor-belfort-pawel-nastula-suspended-2

hahaa nice...guess he owed him a steak dinner and an apology.

RECE ROCK - January 26, 2012 reply

Ahh..yes

I thought they may have caught him in toothless whaleshark mode.

Steve1717 - January 26, 2012 reply

The story behind Vitor's positive test:b

Doesn’t look so bad.

Makes Hendo’s comments seem all the dumber though.

how on earth is, “i took a supplement that clearly contains a banned drug,” not so bad?

After some time to think about it, you're right.

Not much better than Chael’s excuse I guess, but most people seemed to have gotten over that.

People should be over everything. Once the punishment is over and the commission says they can come back, it should be over, but there’s no point in saying one thing is more or less bad than the other; you break the rules, serve the punishment and move on.

The reason people and fans should be over everything is becuse a vast majority of fighters and Athletes use PED’s. It’s part of sports now – bottom line

To me, I try not to think about PED use because we just never know unless someone pops hot. Everything else is just conjecture; it’s an endless, unwin-able debate.

serve the punishment and move on

What if the punishment is, in the individual’s opinion, too lenient?

then do something about getting the rules changed.

Your basis for determining atonement

Rests upon punishment being served, and not the nature of the punishment, yet, if you also accept that punishments may need altered, how can you say that punishments are always appropriate to achieve atonement?

For example, I feel that Chael’s suspension was too short, so I am far from willing to “move on” from what he did. Even if I did think that his punishment was severe enough, he shows no remorse, so, outside of Christian ethics, why am I compelled to forgive him for his actions?

Because I don’t give a shit about any of that. I like to see people fight. In my mind (and the mind of many others) the only issue with steroids is that they are against the rules, and the punishment for breaking those rules means I can’t see people fight. Once they are able to fight again, I stop caring.

I save my moral high horse for shit that matters, not people getting into a cage to punch each other for my entertainment.

Because I don’t give a shit about any of that

Haha, fair enough!

The correct response from Hendo should've been,

“That’s incorrect Vitor… I’m ducking Rogerio, not Apple Crumble”.

Hendo should probably stfu about steroids.

Mad-Dog - January 26, 2012 reply

I liked how he called out other TRT users for their feigned ignorance, but he should keep these kinds of comments to himself .

SentientAndroid - January 26, 2012 reply

I thought it was a fight with Gustafsson that Hendo declined?

Shnak - January 26, 2012 reply

taptomyarmbar - January 26, 2012 reply

I'm guessing the Pot is

Psychoblack.

beat me to it

T.P. Grant - January 26, 2012 reply

its completely different

Hendo’s getting the pure stuff.

TheFilt - January 26, 2012 reply

Vitor has been saying alot of BS recently

first Wand, then Anderson, now Hendo.
WTF ’Tor?

RolloTomasi - January 26, 2012 reply

He's got blue tongue

Wife has athletes foot

Om nom nom

RolloTomasi - January 26, 2012 reply

Hmm... rec or flag, rec or flag...

Screw it I’ll rec that :)

DirecTV delivers

Trying to find the frontkick/footsuck gif

Rumble would be an absurdly easy style match up for Hendo; like Jon Jones-Forrest, Penn-Goulet, or Silva-Bisping level easy. Literally no remotely plausible path to victory.

Jahbulon - January 26, 2012 reply

I've no opinion on ...

the TRT/steroid thing due to my lack of understanding on the whole issue, but one thing I can say with confidence: I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt Dan Henderson has ducked a fight from anyone, period. That due would fight a great white in the ocean without any SCUBA gear… I highly doubt he’s turning down a fight with AJ.

Atomic Salmon - January 26, 2012 reply

Well, what’s your definition of ducking? Dan Henderson has clearly declined fights before, like Gustafsson recently.

Shnak - January 26, 2012 reply

There’s a difference between being smart and “ducking”

Horselover Fat - January 26, 2012 reply

To me, “ducking” is when a fighter refuses to fight an opponent because they are scared to. Not solely because it’s not the best business idea at the time. Hendo doesn’t want to commit to a fight with Noguiera because he may have an immediate opportunity to fight Jon Jones for the title. Honestly, it would be kind of unfair for Nog if Henderson committed to a fight between the two of them knowing full well that he might be tapped to face Jones instead; let Nog fight an opponent who is guaranteed barring injury.

Ex. I believe Tito ducked Chuck because he knew he couldn’t strike with him or take him down, even though Chuck was the undisputed #1 contender and no other fight made more sense. I also believe that when fighters are legends and have faced incredible challenges throughout their careers, they should be given some control of their careers toward the end. I didn’t disagree with Franklin not wanting to fight Gustaffson on short notice; that would’ve been a dumb move.

Sweet Scientist - January 26, 2012 reply

Yeah, to me there's a clear distinction between ducking people and smartly manage your career.

Some guys, like Hendo, have earned the right to be a little picky as to what they consider best for their careers.

Which is bullshit

We slammed Rashad for doing the same thing, but when Hendo does it, it’s all good.

discoandherpes - January 26, 2012 reply

I thought it was pretty clear that the only fight Dan would take at 185 was a title shot

Even if he did turn Rumble down people should have no problem with that. No matter what psychoblack says, Rumble’s not on Dan’s level.

BROCKLESNAR!!!!! - January 26, 2012 reply

speaking of vitor vs dan

watched pride 32 last night. I think it wasfank trigg, but an announcer mentioned Dangerous dan Henderson was only 195 in that fight. Which was at 205. So at the age of 41 he is more jacked than he was at 36. By seemingly 10 pounds of pure muscle. He looked a tad soft in that fight too, so perhaps even more. That seems like a lot for an old man who was active competitor. Anyone know how much he weighed for the rampage fight?

MarcGua - January 26, 2012 reply

Nice observation