Yesterday, B.J. Penn decided to turn to twitter and vent a little. He sent a tweet to what he thought was former opponent Nick Diaz's twitter account, complaining about the way Diaz fought against him at UFC 137, and even took a shot at Jon Fitch in the process. Well, you can always count on Nick's manager Cesar Gracie for a quote, and it didn't take him long to respond to Penn's rant (via GracieFighter.com):
"BJ Penn has apparently not come to terms with the beating he received at the hands of Nick Diaz...."
"At some point it is up to those around you to protect you from yourself. To take you aside and let you know you are wrong and help save you from your folly. Unfortunately for Penn he is surrounded by "Yes Men" that are unwilling to do that. The outcome will be predictable, resulting in a fighter that will never push himself to the fullest and will always have excuses for his losses."
Gracie actually asked Penn if he wanted to merge camps a couple of months ago, but Penn refused, saying he had been a member of Nova Uniao for a long time and would stay that way. Cesar Gracie isn't exactly a bastion of honesty at times, but it's hard to argue with what he's saying here. It's the same thing that people have said for years about Penn. While it didn't stop Gracie from being one of the guys that profited from it before (he has sent the Diaz brothers over to Hawaii to help BJ train for fights in the past), he has at least been up front about his feelings for Penn in the aftermath of UFC 137.
Will we ever see this rematch? Will we ever even see Penn in the cage again? Diaz certainly has bigger fish to fry at the moment with an upcoming
UFC 143 fight against
Carlos Condit that will decide who gets the interim UFC welterweight championship. Perhaps someday all of this might mean something again. But it won't be anytime soon.
What is at least somewhat funny is that Gracie’s quote is the top thing on GracieFighter at the moment, but what’s right below it? The BE scouting report article on Alessandro Ferreira.
Tim Burke - January 6, 2012
Nice.
Machiel Van - January 6, 2012
I can’t tell if this is BJ venting or trying to set up beef so he’s in line for a crack at the interim belt if Nick wins it. Probably both. He sounds like a fool, though.
Redconsensus - January 6, 2012
If he does get a crack at it
Roach+Marinovich+Hughes= Unstoppable BJ. Most likely it’ll be Relaxing+McDonalds+Hemp= fatty Penn.
Adamantium007 - January 6, 2012
…and that doesn’t apply to Diaz and those around him, right?
Shnak - January 6, 2012
Cesar is more of a yes man than Diego Sanchez
menckenstein - January 6, 2012
Cesar Gracie isn’t a yes man. He had to pursuade a young Nick Diaz that sparring with top pro boxers would do his MMA game good, you see the results for yourself. Can you imagine anyone in the BJ Penn camp doing that? Or even coming up with the idea in the first place? BJ is a 2 weight world champion who is pretty much self trained.
sheikybaby - January 6, 2012
Marv Marinovich
menckenstein - January 6, 2012
BJ was already a thrashing machine at lightweight before M&M came along.
Yes, Marv got BJ into good shape for the Florian and Sanchez fights, but BJ was also just the far superior talent in those fights; mentally, technically, and physically.
Part of me makes me wonder whether Marinovich overtrained Penn to his eventual athletic detriment, just like he has with everyone else in his life (himself, and his own son being chief among them). I don’t think it’s unreasonable to speculate that Marinovich’s overtraining tendencies didn’t hasten the end of BJ’s athletic prime.
ElliotMatheny - January 6, 2012
You may be right that Cesar isn’t a “yes man,” the problem, however, is that he isn’t much of anything else. He has got to be one of the worst managers/agents in MMA. It’s pretty clear that he’s a coach who became the manager/agent for a group of fighters he coached because there was no one else. It seems like he never made much of a transition to that manager role once his clients/students got to the upper levels.
It’s pretty astonishing that he couldn’t manage to get Nick on a plane to attend media obligations. Based on the fact that Cesar’s the coach and manager, I’d be willing to bet he gets a nice size chunk of Nick’s fight purse. If that’s the case, he should have been fired after that whole press conference debacle.
Lucas2 - January 6, 2012
I don’t agree, but still rec’able.
Diz D - January 6, 2012
yeah but diaz has been winning
and for all that stuff he did that pissed people of his still fighting for the belt and gonna get paid, not bad for a stoner
four20 - January 6, 2012
came in to say the same thing.
What up Kettle!
John Danaher's Hair - January 6, 2012
Hey, someone just got paid 100 grand just to tell Nick what he is supposed to do, I mean he doesn’t even know how to buy a house, no one taught him that, he didn’t go to school for it, but, you know, whatever.
memitim - January 6, 2012 via mobile
Pretty sure Nick is trolling when he says that kind of stuff.
Luke Nelson - January 6, 2012
Are you talking about the press conference thing when Gracie admitted Diaz was in the wrong? If not i don’t know what you’re talking about.
sheikybaby - January 6, 2012
…and then condemned the UFC’s decision and supported Nick’s behavior in his next interview the next morning? Yeah, that little moment of clarity really slipped by quick.
John Danaher's Hair - January 6, 2012
We have a term for a manager that admits his client is in the wrong.
“Fired.”
Akemi Homura - January 6, 2012
He probably supported the UFC right quick as a form of damage control.
It looked like Nick was gonna get the axe. Obviously when it became clear Dana wasn’t going to fire Nick and offered him the BJ Penn it made it a littler easier for Cesar to say “well, hey, if you are gonna keep him on the same card with just as big of a fight, why not just let him fight St. Pierre?”
Luke Nelson - January 6, 2012
Love Penn but have to agree with Gracie here.
Penn was never pushed to the limits because of the people that surrounded him. Kept hoping it would happen but it never did.
Frank Lee - January 6, 2012
The Marinoviches pushed him top his limit.
The disappointing thing is that he extricated himself from that situation because he wasn’t in charge.
John Danaher's Hair - January 6, 2012
Couldn't Agree More
“Doesnt push himself to the fullest and relies on making excuses”.
It’s well known that BJ doesnt put 100% into his training camps. I’d prefer him to man up and just say he was beat and dedicate himself rather than resort to namecalling when it’s obvious to everyone but himself he took a major ass beating by Diaz.
evenflow10 - January 6, 2012
Well now that the "holidays are over" BJ will be 100% again!
UncleMax - January 6, 2012
Not sure if my facts would be spot on but....
When BJ was training with Marinovich he seemed to perform better……Im sure Marinovich is no where near a yes man.
boscomma - January 6, 2012
Shut up, Cesar!
Wait, he speeks the truth this time. Sorry, force of habit…
pud333 - January 6, 2012
Haha, my thoughts exactly.
andrew861 - January 6, 2012
broken clocks and all that.
Rob Young - January 6, 2012
I think there are three fighters in this sport that have “yes men” around them and it shows. Brock, BJ, and Fedor.
memitim - January 6, 2012 via mobile
Absolutely
And it’s probably no coincidence that those are all fabulously talented fighters that were able to go a long way in the sport without pushing themselves to their fullest potential. I think when guys are able to go so far based on talent alone, when they finally hit the point where only working harder will carry them farther, they quit. Yes men gravitate towards guys that like to hear yes, and vice versa.
Damnatio Memoriae - January 6, 2012
They also tend to isolate themselves from anyone else
BJ in Hawaii
Fedor in Russia
and Brock in the prairie lands of Canada and Minnesota
nannerb - January 6, 2012
I think that's a symptom of not wanting to leave their comfort zones
There’s a lot of fighters from BFE that pack up their stuff and move to train with elite camps far from home. Those guys rarely leave home, and if they do it’s not for very long.
Damnatio Memoriae - January 6, 2012
BJ and Brock perhaps, but Fedor. No.
He’s just a Russian stock. They don’t think to move anywhere other than where they grew up. Does not occur to them. Which has of course worked out well for M1.
UncleMax - January 6, 2012
Someone needs to tell Fedor that he needs to train in a North American style camp with other fighters who are peers, actually they needed to do that years ago. Doing the same thing each camp is what has him fighting on NYE against Ishii.
memitim - January 6, 2012 via mobile
Fedor is too far gone
If he wasn’t, he would have (at the very least) cut the 15 pounds of ice cream and at least given LHW a shot. 15 pounds! He may or may not have even had success at LHW, but it’s pretty damn certain he’s not going to rise to the top of HW again.
joker24 - January 6, 2012
I don't think so
LHW is still better than heavyweight. Why would he want to drop down and have to fight better fighters consistently?
discoandherpes - January 6, 2012
Have you ever seen Fedor in person? He is as wide as a truck and thick as a tree, and it’s not all ice cream at all. It would be extremely difficult for him to cut to 205 and be the same fighter power wise.
memitim - January 6, 2012 via mobile
That’s…quite the embellishment there.
Tim Burke - January 6, 2012
Not really. Could he make the cut with the right diet and conditioning, sure. It would be very tough but sure. Would he have the same power? Most likely not and his speed is negated at LHW. There is nothing for him at LHW.
memitim - January 6, 2012 via mobile
I’m talking about the truck/tree stuff.
Tim Burke - January 6, 2012
He is incredibly wide for a 6’ guy and thick, meaning front to back. In his upper body, neck and shoulders he is very dense.
memitim - January 6, 2012 via mobile
My wife got a picture with him and hugged him
She said it felt like grabbing onto a draft horse.
menckenstein - January 6, 2012
You obviously haven't seen the trucks in Russia huh Tim?
In soviet Russia, truck drives you!
Luke Nelson - January 6, 2012
Oh come on
I don’t need to see him in person to know that he weighs in at 225-230 and carries around a 15 pound spare tire.
joker24 - January 6, 2012
Actually....I dunno...
A friend of mine volunteered at the Vancouver Winter Olympics and managed to get a spot compiling game stats for the men’s hockey tournament. Basically at the end of every game he would distribute stats packages to all the media and team staff members. Pretty sick job, he got to hang out at Rogers Arena every day watching the best hockey players in the world play….
Anyhow….He was chilling out one day, watching the Czech team warm up by playing soccer in a hallway, and he heard a voice behind him say “Oh, where are we going to play?”….he turned around and it was Alex Ovechkin. He couldn’t believe how big Ovechkin was. Wide and thick, by far the thickest human he’d ever seen.
So I mean, when you look at Fedor, he certainly doesn’t have the typical fighter body but you can’t just say “oh he’s 225-230 with a 15 pound spare tire, he could easily drop to 205” because you’ve seen him on TV.
Luke Nelson - January 6, 2012
Exactly. Derek Jeter or Andy Pettite dont look like much on TV but when you meet them they are huge. TV is not four dimensional. It’s easy to sit behind a keyboard and say Fedor should easily lose 25 pounds and compete at the top level of the stacked LHW division. It’s just not reality.
memitim - January 6, 2012 via mobile
I doubt Fedor could compete at LHW at this point, he's too far gone
But I know he can’t compete at the top of HW if he’s getting waxed by Bigfoot Silva.
joker24 - January 6, 2012
Oh for the love of god, I'm dealing with facts not speculation
He usually weighs in at 225-230. That’s not like up for debate.
He’s fat for a fighter and has a goddamn belly. That’s not up for debate.
If you get down to 215, you can easily cut 10 pounds of water weight no matter your body type. That’s not up for debate.
He weighed in at 223 for Henderson:
He can’t cut 8 pounds off that? He could do it in one month with the right conditioning/nutrition program. He barely has a bigger frame than Henderson, ya know the guy who could make 185.
joker24 - January 6, 2012
Even then
Fedor and Randy are about the same size. Randy fought at heavyweight at a ripped 240 and also cut to 205. Fedor could do either, and I think he would be more successful. I just don’t think he has a world-class strength and conditioning program.
Damnatio Memoriae - January 6, 2012
When was Randy ever 240? The biggest I ever remember his is like 226 against Barnett.
Tim Burke - January 6, 2012
*him
Tim Burke - January 6, 2012
Honestly, I'm going from memory
I thought he came in up around 240 when he fought Sylvia. I’m trying to find something that backs that up, but UFC doesn’t have the tale of the tape or weigh in video for UFC 68 on their website.
Damnatio Memoriae - January 6, 2012
Try searching for the weigh in results on Junkie
but Randy has never weighed more than 230
av1o3 - January 6, 2012
Randy was 222.5 at UFC 68.
Tim Burke - January 6, 2012
Okay, I retract my previous statement then
Still though, he and Fedor are pretty similar height/weight/build. I think if he can make the cut, Fedor could to.
Damnatio Memoriae - January 6, 2012
They are different body types tho. Randy has always been lean and ripped. Fedor has always had that power lifter body type. They are very different.
memitim - January 6, 2012 via mobile
Randy had been cutting weight for 20+ years before ever getting to the UFC...
wrestlers have a huge advantage in the weight cutting game by dint of having done it for most of their athletic lives.
John Danaher's Hair - January 6, 2012
He won’t. He’s Russian. No sense of urgency that afflicts Westerners to keep moving, keep doing new things. They have a calm confidence in just staying put and that where ever they’re at is “good enough”.
UncleMax - January 6, 2012
Cool stereotyping, bro.
Unabomberman - January 6, 2012
I live in Eastern Europe
and I’ve been all over this part of the world.
Cool snark, bro.
UncleMax - January 6, 2012
Lesnar I feel was just stupid much more than lazy
You don’t get to being 275 pounds of muscle by being lazy, it’s not possible (BE seriously underrates the amount of time it requires to be that big). You don’t dominate a black belt JJ guy on the ground by being lazy.
Ultimately it was just his striking that led to his downfall and the big problem is that Pat Barry was the best guy he had around. He surely he could have paid enough to bring in someone better than Barry, but the way Lesnar talked about him you’d think he was the greatest kickboxer alive. Overeem’s facial expression when asked about Barry at one of the presser things was hilarious.
joker24 - January 6, 2012
He didn't have killers in the gym punching him in the face
So when he faced killers in the Octagon punching him in the face, he folded like a cheap lawn chair.
discoandherpes - January 6, 2012
They don’t have to be lazy. I dont think Fedor is lazy. Brock, like BJ and Fedor, didn’t train outside his zone. And it showed in his fights.
memitim - January 6, 2012 via mobile
I think there's a difference between not liking to push yourself
And not liking to be pushed by others. Brock can clearly push himself. I’m sure BJ and Fedor can as well. But they like to have things their own way, and you can’t do that forever and be the best. All of those guys, through money or name, can get top guys to come train with them. But they still train their own way, with coaches that do what they tell them to, instead of the other way around. That’s a far cry for going to a coaches camp, where you do what they say every day, and train with guys that are as good or better than you every day. “Iron forges iron” is a cliche because it’s true.
Damnatio Memoriae - January 6, 2012
when has Cesar ever told Nick Diaz...
“no”? When has he ever criticized Nick for any of his bullshit? Oh yeah- when he was talking directly to Dana during the GSP debacle, only to change tack 12 hours later. Nick’s as guilty of enabling Nick as BJ’s harem of sycophants is of enabling his laziness.
John Danaher's Hair - January 6, 2012
agreed
this feels a little to “pot/kettle” for my taste.
while i doubt Cesar ever needs to push Nick as far as training is concerned i’m sure he still has to “yes Nick” often involving out of ring activities.
F'n Clownshoes - January 6, 2012
Exactly. Nick Diaz is the most enabled fighter in MMA. BJ’s not far behind though.
Tim Burke - January 6, 2012
Y'all haters.
Cesar called Nick’s behavior stupid when he blew his title shot against GSP, he was very open and upfront about how disappointed he was (with Nick) and how he thinks Nick needs help dealing with his anxiety issues. Blah blah blah, I know. Look guys, nick has done something in the past few years that BJ has not. He has improved and bettered himself. And as to BJ being held on the cage. He was held on the cage for most of the second round, but he was held there with hundreds of punches. Cesar is a blowhard, but there was nothing but truth in this comment.
bigstupidsmile - January 6, 2012
I can't see the word blowhard without thinking of Tobias Funke.
Zachary Kater - January 6, 2012
Record yourself. Seriously.
thirdparty - January 6, 2012
it does not matter how much truth there is to a statement if it’s made by a man who is a hypocrite.
you forget that less than 12 hours after Cesar publicly reprimanded Nick, he came around and put the blame entirely on GSP, Dana and the Zuffa brass.
F'n Clownshoes - January 6, 2012
Sure, Cesar made nice with Dana and all that. Then turned around the next day and went right back to enabling Nick like he always has, covering for him and saying it wasn’t Nick’s fault. As usual. Remember, Cesar’s the one that got Nick back on the card by baiting BJ into a fight (when they were supposedly friends). Cesar’s a master manipulator, and he’ll never make Nick take real accountability for his actions. Because the money dries up if he does.
Tim Burke - January 6, 2012
I saw "y'all haters" and stopped reading.
This “haters” mentality has to die.
woomikee - January 6, 2012
I don’t understand why people keep defending the fact that Cesar doesn’t manage Nick very well by claiming that Cesar publicly called Nick on his unprofessional behavior following the press conference fiasco. Rather than being an example of Cesar controlling Nick, it’s something he should have been fired for. People don’t seem to understand that Cesar is being paid for his role as manager/agent. He is Nick’s coach and manager, meaning he gets a decent chunk of Nick’s fight purse in return for his doing a certain job. The mere fact that Cesar couldn’t get his client on a plane to fulfill his contractual obligations means he’s not doing his job.
Lucas2 - January 6, 2012
Nick Diaz gets paid a lot
So I’d say he does a good job.
discoandherpes - January 7, 2012
Except Nick is self motivated when it comes to training and works hard as hell all the time to be in the best shape he can be in and constantly improve his skill. Few guys you can look at and see him improve just about every fight going back to his defeats years ago. Every fight I see him do something better.
memitim - January 6, 2012 via mobile
i don’t think anyone is doubting Nicks willingness to train hard and improve in the ring. i think Cesar is more of a yes man as it concerns his out of the ring activities and no. i don’t mean the triathlons.
F'n Clownshoes - January 6, 2012
Cesar is going to do and say whatever he needs to in order to promote his fighters. But, behind the scenes someone got paid, supposedly, a lot of money to make sure Nick understood where he needs to be and when. I’m sure Nick didn’t want to part with that dough. But, someone, likely Cesar and Dana, said he needs to do this. Who does that for BJ. Cesar defends Nick no matter what, to a fault maybe, but I don’t see that as him being a “yes man”. It might sound crazy but Nick has matured a ton since we got to know him. Someone is mentoring him.
memitim - January 6, 2012 via mobile
everything you said is correct. i just think he is very much a coddling yes man when it comes to Nick.
F'n Clownshoes - January 6, 2012
Coddling, maybe yes. But, he eventually gets Nick to do what needs to be done. I’m sure with Cesar’s temper he has let him have it more than once.
memitim - January 6, 2012 via mobile
You obviously have inside info about day to day goings on at Cesar Gracies academy if you know how often he tells Nick Diaz ‘No’.
When Diaz decides he wants his entire training camp in Stockton and decides how long it will last, then Gracie will be enabling Diaz in the way ‘Team Penn’ constantly humour their mealticket.
sheikybaby - January 6, 2012
I swear, I’ve never heard of BJ being a member of Nova Uniao until Cesar asked him to merge camps. I thought BJ had his own team in Hawaii? He’s never seemed affiliated with Nova Uniao in the past.
KyroJudo - January 6, 2012
I knew there was a lot of those guys who went to Hawaii to train with BJ but I also wasn't aware of anything official.
menckenstein - January 6, 2012
He's an André Pederneiras black belt
and won the mundials under the Nova Uniao banner.
(which is one of the many controversies around him, since he originally came up under Ralph Gracie and at some point felt decided he’d topped out there and allegedly just jumped camps)
LBo - January 6, 2012
For some reason I always thought some American gave BJ his black belt
Dunno where I got that idea from. Good stuff though, thanks.
menckenstein - January 6, 2012
I think he's the first American black-belt.
SanFranpsycho - January 6, 2012 via mobile
No he wasn’t. He was the first American to with the Mundials black belt division.
Lucas2 - January 6, 2012
That’s because people view joining an MMA camp more like joining a cult than an actual gym.
discoandherpes - January 6, 2012
He talks about his Nova Uniao work a lot in his book.
Tim Burke - January 6, 2012
What I don't understand is
Why is this all going on now? It’s not like BJ lost a split decision or it was close… Nick completely dismantled BJ so badly he was contemplating retirement after. I don’t think anyone wants to see a rematch of this.
crazedfan - January 6, 2012
Ask BJ. Apparently he woke up in 2012 and forgot Diaz used his face as a speed bag.
pud333 - January 6, 2012
Damn at first I thought that was Gaddaffi
BJ you so cray cray.
menckenstein - January 6, 2012
He must be if he wants to experience that again.
crazedfan - January 6, 2012
Who knows.
I stopped taking BJ seriously about this as soon as I read the “Oh my look at how big you are!” photo comment. It’s like he turned into Little Red Riding Hood.
Machiel Van - January 6, 2012
BJ: Oh Diaz! What big hands you have!
Diaz: All the better to pummel you with!
pud333 - January 6, 2012
Diaz didn’t completely dismantle BJ though. BJ won the first, lost the 2nd badly, and the third was even until about 30 seconds to go, when Diaz landed about 30 punchs in 30 seconds. BJ’s face was busted up, but the fight wasn’t a complete blowout by any means.
Tim Burke - January 6, 2012
I like BJ too.
But can we please accept that what BJ said is silly and not reflecting of reality?
bigstupidsmile - January 6, 2012
What does that have to do with the realistic version of the fight?
Tim Burke - January 6, 2012
Diaz set a record for punching BJ in the face
On the cards that might constitute being close, but we all know it was a complete as whooping.
discoandherpes - January 6, 2012
I wonder if a phone call wasn’t placed to BJ from the UFC brass. It would make sense as they need some headliners that can put up numbers above base-line.
BJ is pretty reliable, and has his niche fans.
Heenan - January 6, 2012
I respect Penn
and recognize is accomplishments (only being stopped by two of the best ww’s ever, fighting Lyoto, lw beast in his prime etc.), but I just don’t really care about the guy. He doesn’t interest me for some reason. I think it’s his attitude, I remember thinking that I wanted GSP to curb stomp him in their second fight because BJ was talking a good bit of shit about GSP and I was fairly new to the UFC at the time.
SentientAndroid - January 6, 2012
Diaz/Penn II
The only way this makes sense is if Condit beats Diaz and Penn beats whomever he beats in his comeback match (and he does so decisively)
The Diaz brothers look unstoppable right now. They both seem to have taken their boxing lessons along side their asshole pills in recent years.
But I think Condit has a more diverse striking game than Nick and his ground fighting is at least on par with the Stockton boy. Condit’s sub of Carlo Prater, a BJJ black belt, was impressive to me.
Penn should get someone like the winner of Alves/Kampann. A challenging fight with real ramifications. But the division is stuffed to bursting with talent so if BJ is serious about coming back and not returning to 155, he will need to be a monster in his comeback fight.
jackbox - January 6, 2012
If BJ comes back, I'd prefer to see him at LW.
pud333 - January 6, 2012
Agreed
He’s way too small for welterweight in this day and age of guys cutting 20, or more pounds to make weight.
crazedfan - January 6, 2012
Respect for Penn
It is hard to find now… he will never be a contender … specially if he thinks like this.
Jason Robillard - January 6, 2012
Reminds me of something a wwf wrestler would say
one thats not too good with his lines
I don’t Think BJ will get Diaz Anytime Soon, Fitch vs Penn is more realistic
Green Naugahyde - January 6, 2012
I have an idea.
Put BJ back in welterweight… …against Rumble.
Unabomberman - January 6, 2012
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