Bloody Elbow

Cool Brag

xfreekx - January 8, 2012 reply

And I predicted the Strikeforce purchase

I said it to my sock puppet, Mr. Stinky, then sealed him in a Manila envelope with that day’s copy of “Who Gives a Fuck” magazine. Buried in the back garden. Dug it up a few days later. THEN I Tweeted it to all ten of my followers. All of whom live in an invisible cottage in my third eye.

I can empathize. No one understand geniuses like us.

jackbox - January 8, 2012 reply

YUS

Perfect, perfect use of The Trainyard: rec for you!

hardlyworking - January 9, 2012 reply

They will give a Nobel prize to the person who’s first all year.
It really takes a lot of brains to be first.

aTn - January 8, 2012 reply

..

to dig up a story on the sports #1 fighter? Yeah it takes some effort. I did it.

FrontRowBrian - January 8, 2012 reply

Your best attribute Brian

is your modesty. Always been impressed by how humble you present yourself.

John Nash - January 8, 2012 reply

He's the Chael Sonnen of Twitter journalism

dedstrk316 - January 8, 2012 reply

More like the Urkle.

memitim - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

haha

very good!

dedstrk316 - January 8, 2012 reply

even thats speaking too highly

TylerTreese - January 8, 2012 reply

LOL

Genki Sudo's Choreographer - January 8, 2012 reply

Hey guys!

Me! I deserve credit! everyone acknowledge me!

I’m reccing you, my man. You do, indeed, deserve credit! Genki Sudo’s choreography is the best!

If Jones is healthy and mentally ready, he should fight as many times a year as possible to make money and build up his drawing power.

GSP going back to 2006, averages only 2 fights per calendar year. I don’t see any reason why fights so few times a year when he is not injured.

Anderson Silva going back to 2009, also averages 2 fights per calender year. I’d give him the benefit of the doubt due to injuries and age.

If Jon Jones defends his title 4 times in 2012, he should probably be put in consideration for the greatest champion in UFC history.

Correction on second line

I don’t see any reason why GSP fights so few times a year when he is not injured.

That's because GSP prepares.

And prepares, and prepares, and prepares… When he wasn’t champ, he was hungrier. Now he needs to make sure everything is going just right with each camp.

pud333 - January 8, 2012 reply

A fighter on GSP's level shouldn't need 5-6 months to prepare for any man.

risk aversion

GSP also makes more on endorsements and being a sports personality, than he does from fight payouts, so he defends the bare minimum number of times to protect his brand equity.

the thing is

most champions make a lot of money on sponsorship, and if they are not too much stronger than the rest of the division, naturally they have little incentive to fight often, since a possible loss would mean not only losing the belt but probably a chunk of income

Derrida - January 8, 2012 reply

It's great to do once in a while

But Jones should NOT fight 4 times every single year. He’s still young now, but the wear and tear of continuous training accumulates. It increases the chances of injuries, period.

Consider the non-contact sport of basketball—the guys who make the playoffs frequently in their careers end up playing a lot more games, and even though they aren’t that old yet, they get injured frequently and have gotten slow, because they’ve played so much.

Every time a fighter trains in striking, they build up micro-fractures throughout their hands (and/or knees and feet). If given time to recover, the bones get stronger… but if it’s continuous, the bones wear down and potential for injury keeps going up. When a fighter trains bjj, if they’re caught by a lock or are training to defend a lock, that joint gets stretched and strained. It might not be an injury at the time, but too many of those in a row, and again, the potential for injury goes up.

For Jon Jones to fight 4 times a year, the stars need to align where he is not injured much during training and fighting and every single fight is significant—that was 2011. But they shouldn’t toss one guy at him after another just to fill out the calendar and make money—it will shorten Jones’ career in the long term.

Plus, spacing out Jones’ fights a little more will give Jones more time to develop technique, and for all the guys (like me) who want to see him eventually move to heavyweight, it gives him more time to put on muscle between fights and prepare for the shift. Just looking at Overeem’s body when he was at 205—he was actually already fairly buff. Meanwhile, Jon Jones’ limbs (especially the legs) are still slender, so his frame can pack on a lot more muscle weight (relative to 205 Overeem).

Can’t stand Jones, but his ability as a fighter borders on superhuman. I’d love to see how he reacts to adversity though, Henderson could be the guy to pressure him. My favourite 205 pounder Mo Lawal would be a good matchup aswell.

sheikybaby - January 8, 2012 reply

Hendo ain't the guy to pressure him.

Too small. Rashad’s got the best chance (slim as opposed to none), but I would like to see King Mo, just to see if Mo could put him on his back.

I honestly like Hendo's chances better than Rashad's

At least Hendo has that immediate fight-ending power. I don’t see Jones letting him land clean, but it’s certainly possible that he tags him with that haymaker.

I don’t see Rashad finishing Jones, and I don’t see him overpowering him for three of five rounds. His path to victory is tough for me to understand.

Dave Strummer - January 8, 2012 reply

Rashad shifts phases very well...

is quick as hell, can use broken rhythm and unorthodox timing and has good power, not Hendo power, but he can hurt you. Plus, I think that since leaving Jackson’s he’s had a fire lit under him and is improving. He’s been game planning for Bones for a looong time, has been in the gym with him (a big advantage over all of Jon’s other opponents) and has the wrestling not to get ragdolled.

Of course, Bones has spent a lot of time in the gym with Rashad as well and has evolved/improved much more than Rashad in the interim, I just think that Rashad presents multiple challenges for Bones while Hendo only provides one, and one that is easy to stop considering the size difference Jones would enjoy.

Nothing you’ve said in the first paragraph makes me think that he won’t get destroyed. “..has been in the gym with him” You forgot to mention that this works both ways. Jones knows Rashad as well as Rashad knows him. It’s been a long time since they trained together and Jones is such a better fighter now so I don’t think its not fair to say Rashad could expose some glaring weakness Jones might’ve possessed over a year ago. As far as wrestling goes, I disagree. Rashad is still a small light heavyweight and his wrestling isn’t gonna help defensively in the clinch that much IMO. The match up I want to see is Jones vs Gustafsson

He did mention it goes both ways.

He may not be able to exploit a weakness, but he won’t get confused with Jones’ range like Rampage did.

All I was saying was that training with Jones back when he was with Jackson’s doesn’t mean he knows all of his weaknesses. Jones works all the time and has improved exponentially in the last year alone, any chink in Jones’ armor from the time Rashad trained with him is likely gone by now. Also we can’t say whether Jones’ range will confuse him or not until they actually fight. On paper, I can’t see one area where I could give him an advantage.

We can say it won’t confuse him, because Jones has not gotten exponentially longer since Rashad left Jacksons. That is the one advantage Rashad has over any of Jones opponents is that he has sparred with him and knows first hand how long Jones is.

Is there any area of the fight you can give the advantage to Gustaffson right now?

We can’t say how he will react to it in an actual fight. There is no footage of the two of them sparring so who knows what went down and which one was getting better of the other. Just because they sparred doesn’t make me think Rashad stands a chance since stylistically he doesn’t bring anything to the table that I can see threatening Jones. Gustafsson is very good standing up and has very long body frame, similar to that of Jones. I was very impressed in the way he mauled Vlad a couple of weeks ago, and think he could threaten Bones standing. The ground is a different story, but I think he’s drastically improved his TDD which could greatly serve him in that fight.

LOL

so we can’t speculate as to Rashad’s chances, but you’re free to do so for Gustafsson? OK. Rashad has a way better chance of beating Jones tomorrow than Alex does. Alex is great, but he’s got nothing for Jones right now. Rashad’s got something at least…

All I was saying was that training with Jones back when he was with Jackson’s doesn’t mean he knows all of his weaknesses.

You realize that you’re the only one asserting this statement, yes? Just being in there with someone of Jones size and athleticism is impossible to prepare for- Machida brought in Anderson Silva Braddock, Jones’ size will be nothing new to Rashad. His skills? Totally different, but if you’d read my entire comment, you’d have seen that I acknowledged that. I also said that Rashad’s chances are slim vs. Hendo’s none…I’m hardly favoring Rashad here.

Hendo has nothing for Jones

Except a puncher’s chance

Jones is so full of shit. He’s never ready/available for a fight the same time as Rashad. “My hand hurts, I can’t fight.” So Rashad signs another fight that ends up being with Ortiz. Then, “Wow, it’s a miracle! My hand is all better without surgery. Praise Jesus!” Jones fights.

“Oh, I is sooo tired! I need a long vacation.” Rashad signs with Phil. Fight is only 20 days away. Now Jones, “I’m so rested. That was a great mini vacay of a month. I need a fight asap!!” Can’t wait 20 days for outcome of Rashad/Phil. He needs a contract ASAP!!

This is why I can’t stand that bastard Jones. If you can beat Rashad, let’s get him done and move the hell on with it.

RashadsLeftNipple - January 8, 2012 reply

If Rashad wins, he’ll get to take a lot of time off in between fights. Rashad likes to do that.

Ubernoober - January 8, 2012 reply

Jones is fading Evans again

haha

Bonedoctor - January 8, 2012 reply

It's Rashad's problem if he can't be ready when Jones is ready to fight

You have to understand, Jones is the champion now, he has more say in when he has defend his title than the contenders in his division do. Rashad was supposed to be ready by 140, but he wasn’t, and Jon still wanted to fight, so they gave him Machida. Jon thought that he wanted a long vacation after the Machida fight, but it turns out that he’s been satisfied with his month-long vacation and is now ready to get back in the octagon again.

… when he has to defend his title than the contenders in his division do.

MichaelDavidSmith - January 8, 2012 reply

Yeah, what a jerk

Stepping up to basically rescue his company when they have no viable stars to promote.

I also REALLY resent the way he consistently puts on exciting fights and completely dominates his opponent.

Do please keep in mind that your buddy Rashad played the primadonna role on two years ago when he decided to wait for Rua to get healthy rather than stay active.

Get a handle on your rage. It suggests a lack of substance in your character.

jackbox - January 8, 2012 reply

This

The reason their schedules don’t align to fight each other is because of Rashad’s refusal to fight. It all started with Rashad refusing to fight anyone while Shogun was hurt. Then Jones leapfrogged Rashad because Rashad pulled out of the fight when Shogun was finally healthy. Then Jones wanted to fight in December and Machida was ready but Rashad wasn’t. Don’t blame the guy who wants to fight four times a year for having a schedule that doesn’t line up with the guy who fights once or twice a year.

you conveniently left out the phantom hand injury...

but generally, I agree with you. This is on the UFC- if they feel that Rashad-Jones is the bigger fight, just rein Jones in, wait the extra 20 days and make the call after Rashad-Phil. No need to make this call now.

Exactly!!

DayuumHeGotDropped - January 8, 2012 reply

Meh.. screw the handjob

Think Bones would fight Tito Ortiz (pretty much all Suga has done)? Now, think Rashad would do as well against Machida that showed up for Bones? Rampage that showed up for Bones? Bader tha- wait.. whut?

Why speculate on past opponents when we can have a date for the Champ vs #1 contender in 20 days? Then we can put this to sleep or more likely watch Rashad sleep.

the guy with the big nose - January 8, 2012 reply

Jones had already decided to fight machida when rashad signed to fight davis.

otres - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

Jones had already decided to fight machida when rashad signed to fight davis.

otres - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

Fuck double post.

otres - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

Not a big deal and I don't wanna be the grammar police

but a lot of people on this site are spelling Gustafsson with two F’s, one S (Gustaffson) and that’s just wrong.

Don't want to be that "technicality guy," but...

Are the grammar police enforcing spelling violations now? Who knew!

the guy with the big nose - January 8, 2012 reply

cutbacks

it’s effecting us all

affecting

He'll pretend he did that on purpose to be "ironic".

Zachary Kater - January 8, 2012 reply

Don't want to be the "keeps nitpicking" guy

But his subject didn’t agree with his title, e.g., “Cutbacks…it’s effecting [sic]..” Would read better as "Cutbacks, they’re…

ooops…meant to close that quote!

Even so, they're is redundant

Cutbacks are affecting us all.

He’s Swedish, figures he can’t spell for shit.

the guy with the big nose - January 8, 2012 reply

yeah

at least I got the spelling right in my own language, always something I guess..

True, these foreigners need to step up their game!

Enough of this!

We all need to take a step back and slap ourselves.

*followed by a circle jerk if anyone’s up for it. It is, after all, MMA we’re talking about.

no

we don’t do circle jerks. we’re MMA fans, for fuck’s sake!

we do racism and rolling around on the ground like homosexuals! we cheer for Kelly Pavlik!

what’s wrong with you?

Yes Rashad did sign to fight because he decided not to sit out and wait for a title shot again. But c’mon, really? Jones can’t wait 20 days for a new fight? The company is going to crash and burn in those 20 days? That’s not a fight that can be promoted to hell and back, a true grudge match? The fans are only happy with fake WWE manufactured arguements between fighters that magically get cleared up after the last round?

UFC 140 needed a main event badly

Without Jones defending his title on that card, it would’ve gotten less than 300K buys as opposed to the 485K it did get. That card was full of fighters with little to no drawing power.

UFC 140 might have been the best card of the year

Sub of the century, Tito gets laid out again, Hominick gets exposed, upset after upset after upset. One of the best nights in recent memory.

It's not that simple

As has been stated countless times, Rashad takes huge amounts of time between his fights. If Rashad wins, sure, Jones has a new opponent, but he’d likely wait over five months for that. With this, it’s about another 2 1/2 months for Jones to be ready to fight.

That also brings up another thought of mine, that the UFC might also be involved in the “ducking”. They want to keep the champ that wants to fight 4 times a year as opposed to the one fighting about once or twice a year.

halitosis - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

Easy solution:

If Rashad wins, and says “I need 5-6 months”, the UFC says- cool- Jones will merc Hendo and be waiting for you when you’re ready, cupcake. We’re talking 20 days- not 6 weeks… make the call on Jan 30th.

what if they’re both ready to go for the super bowl or japan card?

huh?

The Super Bowl card is on Feb. 4 and the Japan card is on the 26th- both of those dates are too close even if they announced the fight last week.

You never know. I assume when he says he wants to fight soon he means real soon. Based on recent history, it’s entirely possible that Jones can take a fight and still be ready for the next time Rashad is ready. No point in getting upset without all the info.

It's not up to Jones though.

It’s up to the UFC, and you don’t burn the guy who may be the face of the org without having proper marketing time. Jones’ name isn’t a fail-safe draw yet.

a month when that month has a card on fox is plenty of time, so is 2 months. If they come out today and say he’s main eventing UFC 145, then we can sharpen the knives (although not too much, because whining about 1 vs 2 is pretty stupid), but that doesn’t fit into my definition of “as soon as possible.”

a month is certainly not enough time to effectively promote...

nor is it enough time to train. ASAP means 2-3 months in the top level of big league fighting.

it may be for the guy who had a fight 5 weeks before winning the belt.

1) it was 6 weeks
2) Jones was not the name then that he is now
3) Name me the last major UFC fight (title fight, no less) announced a month prior to the fight (not injury replacement- fight announcement). I’ll wait.

When was the last time a championship level fighter fought 4 times in one year or said he wanted to fight four times in a year?

I don’t see the purpose in getting upset with a guy saying that he wants to fight when nothing else is announced.

who's upset?

I’m perfectly calm, dude. Calmer than you are. Calmer than…
anyway, I’m just saying that it would be stupid to announce his next fight before seeing what Rashad does. It’s only a 20 day wait, which won’t screw up any potential plans. Your suggestions of 2/4 or 2/26 are just completely unrealistic.

Very well put. It is a Title fight and is not going to happen in the next month or 2 whoever the contender. I’d also like to see Dana White keep his word who gets the next shot at the title. Barring injuries the title changes with Diaz, Condit, GSP was really annoying.
Yes yes, I understand the ‘drama’ with Diaz but to flip flop just makes me not want to risk my money travelling to see it live.

There's a difference between subbing for a fighter

and setting up a main event PPV from scratch

Oh, ducking Rashad again, huh. What a surprise.

You’re probably right about that.

AusEagle - January 9, 2012 reply

He is going to fight both Hendo and Rashad eventually, the order in which he does it isn’t very important.

mburtoni - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

Hendo v. Jones is a boring fight

There is no way Hederson lands that right hand on Jones. Jones is too quick and too intelligent to fall for that, the fight will end up looking something like his fight against Rampage.

Evans v. Jones is the fight everyone wants to see. I really don’t understand what the UFC has to gain from drawing it out this much. Poor matchmaking all round, in my opinion.

No but Jones smashing through legends of the past has been great to watch so far. Adding Hendo to his ‘good but not good enough list’ will be a treat.

The Omaplatapus - January 8, 2012 reply

I suppose if you want to see him win

But if you want him to meet his kryptonite ASAP. Then it’s not such a treat.

I strongly doubt that Rashad of all people is Jones' kryptonite

Jones has superior wrestling and top control to Rashad. Rashad’s speedy takedowns won’t help him too much when he’s forced to shoot out much farther than he’s ever had to before against a superior wrestler. There are currently no fighters with a high chance of beating Jon Jones on the radar right now.

I'd give Rashad a pretty good shot,

If he manages to get under Jone’s skin in the build up. I’m not saying he’d win, but at least he might take Jones out of his comfort zone. If not Rashad, then I would hope Davis can do something against him.

Bones seemed to handle trash talking pretty well leading up to the Rampage fight.

Jones is very good at keeping his emotions at bay in fighting, which allows him to treat his opponents like robots with different fighting styles, rather than people with personalities. It helps him stay focused and intimidated come fight night.

IMO, Rashad’s chances of beating Jones are in the range of 2-3/10. I just don’t see how Rashad can put the fight in his favor with his disadvantage in reach and wrestling.

2-3/10 is still higher than what you'd give Hendo though, isn't it?

agree that Rashad looks like the only one in the division who might be able to push Bones, Suga needs close to a perfect night for him to actually win. nonetheless, this is the match the UFC should be striving to make.

I give Hendo is about the same for different reasons

Hendo could land that big right hand and hurt him badly, you gotta factor that in as unlikely as it may be.

you don't know that.

a lot of people thought Hendo/Shogun would be boring, or that Edgar/Maynard 2 AND 3 would be boring fights. you never know how this could play out given that Hendo is in the shape of his life and Jones is absolutely incredible in every outing while showing exponential growth.

i want Rashad/Jones too. i still think Rashad is the guy to beat Jones. but by no stretch of the imagination is this a bad matchup. a legend versus an emerging dominant superstar is always compelling.

For weeks leading up to UFC 139, many people were saying Hendo/Shogun was their most antcipated fight from Pride that they always wanted see

I agree with Edgar/Maynard 2 though, I thought Gray was going to stink the place up, but Frankie made a fight out of it.

This is weird

Since beating Rampage back in May of 2010, Rashad has been the number 1 contender now 21 months straight without getting a title shot. Since Jones won the belt he will be entering into his 3rd defense against someone other than Evans even though Evans entered the ring twice to be announced as his next opponent. Evans, the #1 contender, will now be fighting his second straight non-title fight. As I said, weird.

John Nash - January 8, 2012 reply

weird but it just all comes down to bad timing

The Omaplatapus - January 8, 2012 reply

And the fact that Jones is ducking Rashad.

during the phantom hand injury episode, i thought so too. i don’t buy that anymore.

I don't think Jones fears any man

Jones G.O.A.T??!!

Going 4-0 heck even 3-0 in 2012 Jones will at the very least have to be considered the greatest Lt. Hvywt ever!!

Hankverdee - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

This

He’s ducking the number 3 guy to fight the number 2 guy!!! What a little girl.

I'd love to see Rashad beat Davis and then let Dana know he's ready to fight the next weekend if need be.

Put Jonnybones on the spot.

Rob Young - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

Hmm Nick Diaz the mic?

They have automatic suspensions after some fights

So it would depend

And then Jones says yes and he has to deal with too quick a turnaround against one of the most dominant champs ever? That’s a good idea if you want the title-fight, but not if you want the title.

KGNLuc - January 10, 2012 reply

jones is a badass

And is a proven main event- delivers an awesome fight every time. It’s too bad that some (a lot) of you are too caught up in seeing him lose to appreciate that. Quit being butt hurt about how unstoppable he is and start getting psyched to see a great beatdown and maybe you’ll start liking the guy for what he brings to the sport and not who you think he is as a person

Bravefart - January 8, 2012 via iPhone app reply

other than the first sentence

you could say the same about Anderson.

dedstrk316 - January 8, 2012 reply

Chael made him seem beatable

Before that: yup, same thing. I don’t like my champs too dominant. It sucks if going into the fight you just shrug and think "here comes another “beatdown”. Gosh, I hope Dos Santos doesn’t start ruling HW with an iron fist as well.

KGNLuc - January 10, 2012 reply

Seems like he wants to surpass GSP’s and Silva’s legacies as quickly as possible

Surpassing GSP won't be too difficult

Anderson Silva is more tricky since he’s been dominant for a half decade now

This is what I want to see. The title defended at least three times a year.

If there is a forth, that’s just a bonus.

pud333 - January 8, 2012 reply

Stacking millions and ducking Rashad

Jon Jones is a busy man.

TheFilt - January 8, 2012 reply

Ducking Rashad? More like Rashad is ducking him, who's always "hurt".

Meek Mill - January 8, 2012 reply

Of course. It was Rashad who pulled out of their fight do to injury and then decided he was okay to fight someone else less then a month later.

I LOVE THIS DUDE!

After he beats Hendo he’ll probably fight Rashad or Phil the week after. By the end of the year he’ll be fighting heavyweights. Jon Jones is the mutha f’n man, uck the haters!

Meek Mill - January 8, 2012 reply

What does Jones cut down from?

He could defend his light heavyweight belt at 205 and then fight at 225-230 for the heavyweight title. I think he’d stand a good chance although he wouldn’t be as dominant with wrestlers who could hold their own against him.

He's said 216-218

But I mean he’s like 6 months of squats from being 235

joker24 - January 8, 2012 reply

Jones is not going to HW

Just like GSP will not fight Silva and Silva will not fight Jones, unless it’s his retirement-fight.

KGNLuc - January 10, 2012 reply

Jones should stay at LHW for as long as possible, and defend his belt more than GSP and Silva defended their's.

At the rate he’s going, he can become the most dominant champion in the shortest amount of time and become a real legend for the sport of MMA.

Imagine a HOF with this on his resume:

Ryan Bader
Shogun
Rampage
Lyoto Machida
Rashad Evans
Dan Henderson
contender 7
contender 8
contender 9
contender 10+

He could have the most wins over elite competition in no time.

amendamatrix - January 10, 2012 reply

And cue the “what about Rashad” whiners. Only the most asinine of Jones haters could possibly interpret fighting Lyoto Machida and Dan Henderson as somehow “ducking” Rashad Evans. There’s no guarantee Rashad gets past Phil Davis anyways. MMA has always has been more of a “what have you done for me lately” sport, and Hendo has had a far more impressive year than Rashad.

joshyboy708 - January 8, 2012 reply

Hendo has beaten up Tree Stump, and Ace. He nuked Bisping, Babalu, Feijao, and FUCKING FEDOR!!! He came back to the UFC and beat Shogun in the best fight evar. Not too shabby.

If anyone deserves the shot its Hendo.

Ubernoober - January 8, 2012 reply

Exactly. In comparison, Rashad’s year involved waiting around for Shogun, getting injured, whining about Jones, whining some more about Jones, somehow finding the time in all his whining about Jones to beat Tito Ortiz, whining some more about Jones, and then getting injured.

joshyboy708 - January 8, 2012 reply

And not only was he the only man to ever KO Fedor, he did it from his fucking knees. Anyone who writes off Hendo needs a head examination.

memitim - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

2012 Jones>>>>>>2011 Fedor

True. But, he still scored a KO on a granite chin from his knees. Not saying he will do the same to Jones but he certainly could land that right hand from almost any position and he usually does. That’s what makes him so dangerous.

memitim - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

but he's 2 weight classes away from Jones, size-wise.

I don’t see him getting anywhere near him. But, you’re right in the sense that Hendo’s earned the right to never be totally counted out.

No doubt it will be hard for Hendo to get anywhere near Jones who has more than a 10 inch reach advantage. But, in a scrap, during a takedown, he will be close and then who knows. Right now it seems to have as good a chance as anybody.

memitim - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

I don't write him off

He has a big right hand and um….well that’s about all he’s got for Jones. No threat of solid takedown defense, no bottom game, no effective gas tank, no submission threat, etc.

SSreporters - January 8, 2012 reply

True. He is no JOE.

memitim - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

You are awesome.

castleeb - January 8, 2012 reply

oh. any wrestling credentials or submission defense? no chin to speak of? no ability to close the distance and take dudes down? come on, son!

he has terrible defensive wrestling...

and will have to cover double the distance than he ever has to be in a position where the right is even a possibility. Punchers chance for Dan against Bones, and as far as punchers chances go, a particularly small one.

Beating Fedor isn't a big deal anymore

It’s sort of like the “popular girl” at school. It was just his turn.

Jones vs. Hendo in Montreal, get it done!

dynamitelungs - January 8, 2012 reply

I bet you Jones fights Hendo and Evans loses to Davis

SSreporters - January 8, 2012 reply

of course it’s going to be Jones/Hendo, but Evans losing to Davis? Nah. I’ll put 2 popsickle sticks on that bet.

I haven't even considered for more than one second that Davis has anything for Rashad

And wasn't Hendo

just calling out Jones? Saying he should have seniority over any one else in the division because of his age and the fact he’s not getting any younger. There is no way Jones is gonna be sidelined until the winner of Evans/Davis fight. Who else is Jon gonna fight in the mean time? This fight is gonna be next for Jones and I’m looking forward to it.

ScoreCardOTN - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

? That fight is in less then a month. He can’t wait four months for a fight?

No

Medical suspensions could last longer than that. The winner could suffer an injury during next camp. Jones wants to make that cheese now, not later.

ScoreCardOTN - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

Hendo could suffer and injury or heart attack during his camp also

His TRT is what prevents those things from happening.

ScoreCardOTN - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

So he’s not fighting the winner of a number one contender bout because they might get injured?

theworldsoldestsport - January 8, 2012 reply

No

I’m saying Dana isn’t gonna wait that long for Jones to fight again.

ScoreCardOTN - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

y’know, i’m a big detractor of Jon Jones. but this is awesome.

Anderson Silva complains about the prospect of fighting Henderson again.
Jon Jones is more than willing to. Jon Jones hasn’t complained. He’s fought whoever. He’s Finished a lot of guys with great resumes.

Personally…I balk at Jon Jones. As a fighter, and as a champion, I’m starting to run out of bad things to say about him.

I like to watch him fight. I just don’t like to hear him speaking before nor after.

Champion should not pick his opponents, and it is not like he is calling Henderson out,

but picking when he wants to fight and who is available is pretty darn close. At this rate Gustaffson will get a shot before Rashad.

Champions should have some say in when they want to fight, as long as the defend their titles the minimum amount of times per year allowed.

As a contender, Jon Jones had no choice but to face Shogun on 6 weeks notice immediately after going through a training camp for Ryan Bader, but no one said much about it then.

Some say doesn’t equate to having three title defenses, with not one against the 1# contender. Your example is a terrible one, because Jones did have a choice in taking that fight, and it was the best possible move for his career. Jones will take a convenient vacation if he beats Hendo and Rashad beats Davis.

A champion will fight when he is ready to fight, only then will a challenger get their title fight

If a champion is injured prior to a scheduled fight, his opponent either waits until the champion is healthy and is ready to fight (IE: rashad waiting for shogun), or fights someone else in the meantime with the understanding that they could possibly lose their contendership should they lose.

If a challenger is injured prior to a scheduled championship fight, the champion usually fights the next contender in line, while the injured fighter has to wait for his title shot when the champion’s availability is clear.

I will believe Jones is ducking Evans the moment the UFC tries to book the fight and Jones refuses to sign the papers. Why would Jones duck Rashad Evans, but not Rampage, Shogun, Machida, or Henderson? What is so special about Rashad, that a fighter of Jones’ caliber has to dodge a fight with him? If the UFC really wanted to make the Jones-Evans bout happen, they would’ve pulled Rashad out of the Davis fight, switch him with Hendo, and have Jones-Evans be main event of 145.

He has been ducking Rashad since the phantom hand injury, you know, when the UFC tried to book the fight. Contenders can’t duck opponents, so Rua example is again, terrible. As for the other three, none of them pose the same threat Rashad does, so why duck them? Jones has a big brother fear of Rashad.

Also, they can’t just pull Rashad from the Fox card. Contracts have been signed and Hendo stepping in to fight Davis is silly. Short notice with huge risk and low gain.

http://www.mmafighting.com/2011/05/13/jon-jones-elects-to-not-have-surgery-on-injured-hand/

There was no phantom hand injury, just an intial miscommunication to the media courtesy of Malki Kawa.

Here is the real story on Jon’s hand injury:

According to Kawa, Jones flew to Las Vegas earlier in the week to meet with hand specialist Dr. James Vahey. Jones’ surgery was scheduled for Thursday, but after meeting with Dr. Vahey on Wednesday, Jones was advised against surgery and told that it would have been too invasive.

The first two doctor’s Jones saw were not specialist, and were the ones who said he should schedule a surgery.

I really think you are overrating Rashad by saying Jones has been ducking him all year.

He never needed surgery, this is known.

He opted for an elective surgery when he was scheduled for Rashad, then when Rashad signed to fight Phil Davis, he decided it was unnecessary.

Believe what you want, I showed you the facts.

At the time he thought getting a surgery to fix a lingering issue advised by two doctors was the right thing to do at the time. If you had a lingering injury for most of your life, and now that you had money and insurance, and was advised by TWO doctors that you can correct it for good, why wouldn’t you schedule a procedure?

The surgery was not 100% necessary, but at the time, Jon Jones thought getting it would improve his ability to compete. You act like Jones is like Mayweather saying fighters don’t deserve to fight him or some other nonsense.

One more thing...

What threat does Rashad Evans pose to Jon Jones that would give him a “very good” chance of winning? Rashad’s transition from striking to shooting for a take down is very fast, but he would have to do it from much farther away than he’s had to with any other fighter he’s fought so far, making it much more predictable. That’s not taking into account that Jones is very capable of putting rashad on his back and elbowing his face into oblivion.

No I act like it has been two title defenses against the number 4 and 5 ranked contenders despite having no real excuse for not fighting the number one contender other than bad timing he brings upon him self, conveniently. The facts are that the fight was going to happen, and a way out was found.

As far as Rashad’s chances, irrelevant, he is the number 1 contender. That being said, having trained with Jones reach prior to the fight is an advantage that none of Jones’ other opponents have had. He has speed, knockout power, and great wrestling. His only weakness is that he would be over powered in the clinch, but having trained with Jones, he has insight into Jones clinch game and will avoid it.

It's not Jon Jones' problem, it's the UFC's and Rashad's.

If they want to make the fight, make it, just like they were originally going to force Condit to step aside and bring Diaz in to fight GSP, they could do the same here.

Jon Jones only needs keep fighting the top 10 opponents and defend his belt. It’s the UFC’s job to give him guys to fight. The UFC tried to have him fight Jones on 12-10-2012, it didn’t work out. Now that both are healthy, the UFC can switch some matches around make the fight you want to see, but they choose not to.

Jon Jones is doing his job with no complaints.

It is clearly not a problem for Jones.

He gets what he wants.

You are also contradicting your self now. This started as me saying Jon Jones shouldn’t pick when he is ready to fight and you said he has that right. I am just saying the UFC should wait til January 28 to think about getting Jones another match.

Also, Jones job isn’t to fight top ten opponents, he is supposed to fight the best. This is still a sport. Hopefully you would disagree if they scheduled Jones a fight with Forest Griffin, who is still arguably top ten.

Jon Jones gets what he wants because he is Champion. He's finally getting some of the same leverage guys like GSP, Couture, and Liddell are getting.

He remains champion as long as he keeps beating the best fighters, in this case, the top 10 fighters in his division. Jones has beaten 4 of the top fighters in his division in 2011. If the top 10 fighters aren’t the best, who is?

Forest Griffin is NOT top 10 currently, he hasn’t beaten any top light heavyweights since Rampage in 2008, sat out all of 2010, and lost his recent rematch to Shogun in the first round. Don’t even try to convince me that Griffin is top 10, because you know it’s not true. His inactivity and lack of wins against relevant competition is why I have him at #15.

I didn’t change my position, champions fight when they are ready to fight, just like GSP, just like Anderson Silva, just like Jon Jones. The UFC needs to make Jones a ppv draw, so they will strike while the iron is hot and have him fight as often as possible to build him up, the way they did with GSP. If they were smart, the ufc will make a prime time special for Jones-Evans that airs on FOX and FX whenever they decide to make that fight happen.

I don't care where you rank Griffin.

Griffin is ranked in the top ten in the consensus rankings.You missed my point as well. Jones needs to beat the top contender. And you say Jones get what he wants,but it is also the UFC’s job to give him contenders. Just because he is ready to fight now doesn’t mean they should schedule him a fight. They should wait til Jan. 28, which is when the UFC is supposed to set up a contender.

I don't care what those consensus rankings say because they are all irrelavent.

The UFC makes the fights according to it’s own internal ranking system. The UFC wants Jon Jones to fight as many times a year as he is able to, or else they would have had him wait for Rashad. No fighter determines WHO they fight, that is all up to the UFC. If the UFC wants a fight to happen 99% of the time, barring injuries, it will happen.

Dana seems to be excited to see Jon fight again, so if he announces Jones vs Hendo this week, don’t you dare say Jones is ducking, he is simply fighting who Dana White and Joe Silva tells him to. It takes three parties to make a fight happen, with the UFC being the one to approve what does and what doesn’t go down.

Jones is strategically choosing when to fight. YOu are still missing the point of the Griffin example, so I will replace him with Lil Nog. If the UFC put Lil Nog in a fight with Jones, would you have a problem with that, with current standings inconsideration?

You're being real silly now.

How is he strategically choosing when to fight? He opted to get surgery, under the advice of two doctors, which postponed the fight the first time. He was dissuaded from doing so right before surgery by a hand doctor, and the resulting announcement to the public was botched by his management.

The second time, Jones was fighting at UFC 140 no matter what, because that card NEEDED a proper main event. It sucks for Rashad that he couldn’t get ready by then, but that is not Jones’ problem.

The guys Jones has fought since winning the belt are all worthy title contenders. He finished Rampage, a guy who fought Rashad after a year lay off, and almost knocked him out every time he landed a punch. He finished Lyoto Machida, the first and only man to outclass Rashad and knock him out definitively. Your current examples don’t matter because he’s not fighting that guys that far away from title contention. Jones has consistently been fighting guys at the peak of title contention starting with Ryan Bader. If the UFC wants Jones to fight Rashad, that’s fine, but if they want him to fight Hendo, that fine by me too.

If anything, this is karma biting Rashad in the ass for attempting sitting to out 10 months to wait for a title fight since he’ll likely be waiting double the amount of time he originally expected. Jon Jones is a fighter, he’s not interested in sitting out just to wait for one guy, he wants to fight as often as his body allows and Dana clearly seems to approve.

IMO, Jones is ready to fight now, because Rashad is tied up. And the peak of title contention is Rashad, and has been for 21 months. He has yet to face him, that is an issue. Waiting a month to see who his next opponent is shouldn’t be debate-able.

Jason Kempland - January 9, 2012 reply

Rashad is guaranteed a title shot if he beats Davis regardless if Jones is champion or not

The UFC will make the fight happen when both fighters are available and they, the UFC, feel like doing it. Rampage vs Evans happened over a year after it was supposed to happen, and no one was called out for ducking at that time, so I don’t see the problem. The UFC may want Jones to fight on one of the upcoming cards to provide a suitable main event, so it’s understandable if they give Hendo the shot, then Rashad-Davis winner fights for the title in afterwards. If that’s how it plays out and Rashad wins his fight, he will get his title shot regardless of if it’s against Jones or Hendo, so I see no issue as long as nobody gets an serious injury after these two fights.

It is an issue since Rashad has been guaranteed a title shot for 21 months. Depending how Hendo Jones ends, The winner may want to take a vacation, or suffer a hand injury, specifically one that was fixed in a way that has the possibility to reoccur. Also many people claimed Rampage was ducking Rashad.

Jason Kempland - January 9, 2012 reply

So what? He's not the first #1 contender to have his shot delayed due to circumstances, and he won't be the last.

Rashad will fight the winner of that fight if it gets made, so what’s the issue? Rashad should know that MMA as a combat sport is way more volatile than boxing, and injuries can happen frequently. It happened to him right before he was supposed to fight Shogun and the first time he was supposed to fight Rampage.

He will get his shot when his time comes. You can’t demand the UFC to allow a PPV card in need of a main event to go down in flames just because a contender needs an extra three weeks to get healthy, they will likely find someone of comparable contender status to fill his role.

One more thing...

You said it was Jon Jones’ choice to take the fight with Shogun on six weeks notice because it was best for his career, well, fighting as often as possible, as soon as possible, is within Jones’ best interests at this stage of his career. He need only worry about himself, and not let some other guy he no longer cares about dictate when he should fight.

The person you should direct your criticisms to is Dana White, for not taking extreme measures to make the fight you want to see happen, like he was going to do with Condit/Diaz/GSP. Very few people “duck” each other in MMA, and I take it as an insult when you say the champion of a division is doing that when he is tearing through all of the fighters tossed his way, 2X more times than other champs no less, without crying about it, or posturing to get more money like Fedor’s management tried to do.

I rest my case on the subject

My criticisms are directed at both.

Jones not fighting Rashad is the best choice for his career. What is the easier fight, Henderson or Evans? Probably Henderson, And for the umpteenth time, I keep saying that the UFC should bench Jones until the 28th till the next contender is clear, and not bow to Jones wishes to get back in there before hand.

Jason Kempland - January 9, 2012 reply

Hendo = Cheater

stop using steroids, i mean “testosterone replacement therapy,” and then we’ll see how good Hendo is. his “victory” over Fedor doesn’t count for shit in my book. i’m looking forward to watching Bones smash his sorry cheating ass.

You are a fucking idiot.

Hendo is actually old enough to need trt.

b2tharad - January 8, 2012 reply

just because he’s old doesn’t give him a right to artificially augment his endocrine system. how do we know that his testosterone levels aren’t through the roof during non-testing periods? it’s an unfair advantage.

Because he is tested in and out of competition. Your post is stupid.

memitim - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

how often is Hendo tested? if it’s not on something like a weekly basis, then it’s meaningless.

btw—what’s up with all of the childish name-calling here? i thought this place was supposed to be a little more thoughtful than those boneheads at sherdog. i don’t mind respectful disagreement, but saying someone is a “fucking idiot” or a post is “stupid” doesn’t add anything.

Childish name calling? Like calling Hendo a cheater? You get what you give.

memitim - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

Hendo is a cheater

If it makes you feel better you can keep saying it but cheating means breaking the rules, which he is not. But keep up the babble .

memitim - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

Please, you are being painfully ridiculous. The commission tests him regularly. You don’t know what the hell you are talking about.

memitim - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

You're encouraging a situation where all fighters take TRT

As long as they fall below the required level the day before the fight, everything is fine. That’s ridiculous.

Yeah, that’s how it works. Please educate yourself about the situation before posting.

memitim - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

yes, completely ridiculous. it’s an absurd and obvious loophole that needs to be closed. until then, every guy that uses TRT has an enormous “*” next to everything he does.

http://espn.go.com/blog/mma/post/_/id/2991/hendo-trt-user-since-2007-speaks-on-use

not true:

“Even though Henderson monitors his own levels, never, he says, has the commission randomly tested him away from a fight.”

TRT is on the honor system and there’s a huge incentive to cheat.

The NSAC does random testing. Please stop.

memitim - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

can you cite something?

http://boxing.nv.gov/

memitim - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

i don’t see any mention of random testing for TRT on there—that’s just the general boxing website.

You are ridiculous. Go do a Google search for “Nevada State athletic commission starts random drug testing.” then stop this nonsense. Thank you.

memitim - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

okay, found a memo where it says that the NSAC does some random testing, though i wonder if they actually test testosterone levels or just for the presence of actual PEDs. you might be right, but i’d like to see something more.

Then go search away. I’m not doing the work for you. Both Overeem and Brock were subjected to random testing leading up to their fight. So are all the other fighters. I don’t know what else to tell you except you are dead wrong on this issue. Have fun.

memitim - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

There is no random testing.

Point out a single article announcing a fighter being tested at a random time. There aren’t any. No fighter that’s been caught cheating was caught by a random test, but by a test that was at a known time.

Your mention, with no link, of a single article no one else can find that says there is random testing is not convincing. I have read many articles that say there IS NO RANDOM testing, and every article about a fighter that failed a test mentions the timing as having been after a fight.

Just looked through the Overeem articles

And I still have the same impression I have before. He was required to have a pre-fight test as a condition of getting licensed to fight in Nevada. And he was more or less able to postpone it for WEEKS because of his travel situation before he finally got tested in London and again when he returned. Brock did not get a pre-fight test.

Brock did get a pre-fight test with the AC’s blessing. Do some fucking research and stop speaking out your ass.

memitim - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

Now fuck off and and this stupid debate:
http://business.nv.gov/PressReleases/PR-2008-1-25AddlSteroidTesting.pdf

memitim - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

OK, granted

There is now one extra pre-fight test. That’s urine. Which is not sensitive to multiple PEDs. And Overeem was able to postpone authorized testing for weeks. And it seems like most fighters still don’t get a random test.

It’s still a very flawed system, of which TRT is one of the worst loopholes.

i just cited an article where Hendo says there is no random testing. unless you have something to cite to, you lose this point.

If TRT made you like Hendo it would be the most popular drug on the planet.

Ubernoober - January 8, 2012 reply

No. It just makes Dan Henderson (41) into Dan Henderson (31)

+10 years experience.

Anyone who has documented to the commission that they have Low T can get TRT as long as they test at normal levels when the commission tests them. I’m tired of the bullshit nonsense that Dan is cheating when anyone in his position can get the same treatment he does at any age.

memitim - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

He's a 41 year old, who is able to perform/train/feel like a younger man

Because he takes a substance. #Cheating

So what?

He followed the procedure that allows him an exemption to take that substance. Any fighter can take that substance as long as they:
1 – meet the requirements and have documented proof of it
2 – fill out the proper documentation
3 – say under oath that they did not take PEDs in the past,
4 – pass harsher tests every time the fight to prove they don’t abuse the substance while they compete.

That any other 41 year old can. He is abiding by the rules, not cheating. You can keep saying it, it is still dead wrong.

memitim - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

Hendo IS getting an advantage over non users

whether or not you buy the bullshit sophistry put out by the Athletic Commissions justifying the use of “TRT”

No. He is not. Hendo has to test within normal T ranges. If he tests higher, he is popped. Like Chael was. No fucking different from any other fighter. If another fighter has the same Low T issue they can do the same thing Hendo is doing. If there levels are normal then they are even with Hendo. He does not get an advantage. This is simple logic. It baffles me that people don’t get it and say idiotic things like Hendo is a cheater when he is playing by the rules. It’s blatant stupidity.
Not you specifically, idiots who say Dan is cheating.

memitim - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

It's not cheating according to the rules

But it IS cheating because it’s an unnatural advantage. Don’t compare Hendo’s testosterone to 30-year-olds’, the correct comparison is to other 40-year-old fighters. Quite frankly, the human body is supposed to slow down and produce less T, and using chemicals to stave that off is cheating. The amount of testosterone your body produces naturally is what you’re supposed to have, and you fight and train with what you’ve got—if nature says you have less than others, that shouldn’t entitle you to augment it.

Plus, testing IS NOT RANDOM. It’s always close to the day of or on the day of the fight. Every UFC test result was for an announced date. Quite frankly, Hendo could have testosterone off the scale while training and still clear enough to pass the tests. And are they still just testing urine, or have they finally shifted to the more sensitive blood tests?

Right now, PED testing in fight sports is a joke. To really make it fair, enforcement needs to be much stricter, all blood tests, multiple times throughout the year, but that is simply too expensive right now for the Athletic Commissions.

The most realistic alternative is to legalize PEDs, but only allow Athletic Commission licensed doctors to administer them. However, people want to hold on to their fantasy of ‘naturally talented athletes’ being champions, so instead, we’re stuck with this stupid system full of loopholes and BS.

Hendo can medically get his T levels to normal. The AC’s agree that is legal. Who gives a fuck what you think behind your keyboard with limited knowledge. You are clueless. Bartolo Colon had unorthodox stem cell therapy to make his arm years younger completely legal. I believe the commissions spend more time than you looking in to these issues so I dont give a fuck what you think. It is useless. Dan is clean. No matter what you think in your tiny infant world.

memitim - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

Lol

You’re one of those guys who only accepts news from sources that paint things the way he likes to see it. I rather think my world view is larger than yours.

It’s funny to claim that you don’t give a fuck what I think when you take it so personally that you start insulting people. In fact, that shows you CARE VERY MUCH about what people like me think, so much that even though we’re talking about someone we are not personal friends of, you’re pissed off.

And it’s not just ‘ignorant’ people like me, but knowledgeable sports doctors like Dr. Johnny Benjamin who consider TRT to be cheating.

And stem cell therapy is BS. It doesn’t work yet. You’re more likely to get an infection than to see any medically relevant results.

You are silly. Yes, I do care when legends of the sport get disparaged by idiot keyboard warriors. Dan broke no rules. He is a legend and pussy ass bitches who try to say otherwise deserve the moniker.
And your world view is as tiny as fucking a speck.

memitim - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

What's funny

Is that you obviously have such a personal stake in this person who doesn’t even care if you’re alive, to the point that you don’t like it that other people have a contrary opinion about it.

Just as you can have the opinion that TRT isn’t cheating, the rest of us are entitled to have the opinion that it IS cheating, and your getting pissed off and personal about it reflects more about yourself than about Hendo or the debate. It shows that you are a keyboard warrior fantasizing about vicariously sharing the glory Hendo has earned.

Every thread on this page about TRT has you resorting to taunts and insults, like you’re trying to provoke someone to fight… behind your monitor. Yeeeeah, that’s really brave of you. Would Hendo be proud…

memitim is the TEU thought police's first line of defense in the war against Dan Henderson.

Plus, I'm not even against steroids per se

I’m just saying the current system is BS, because it allows some to take testosterone and prohibits others, and it doesn’t do blood testing, allowing a lot of PEDs through REGARDLESS of the TRT issue or Henderson.

As I said, to make things fair, they should spend the money to do random blood testing year round (including for HGH, EPO, etc), not allowing TRT at all, or they should fully legalize PEDs with the caveat that only licensed doctors administer it.

Then, that’s fair and everyone has access to the same training tools, and if they want to risk hypogonadism and whatever other side effects to get a few years of better performance, that’s on them. MMA would split, like body-building, into the ‘enhanced’ participants, and ‘natural’ competitions.

I agree with you 100%

Let everyone use, or fully ban the use of testosterone.

The reason they don't let everyone use testosterone is because ~99% of fighters don't need it.

The vast majority of fighters who aren’t allowed to use it, have T-levels at the normal range already. If they were to take it, they would automatically be considered to be abusing TRT since they didn’t need it in the first place.

The ones who have the TUE are only allowed to use it to get to a normal T-level range that the fighters who aren’t allowed an exemption already have. TRT users like Hendo and Couture, who following all of the established rules, are not receiving an unfair advantage over their competition.

How hard is that to understand?

The ones who have the TUE are only allowed to use it to get to a normal T-level range that the fighters who aren’t allowed an exemption already have.

This is an unfair advantage. They are pharmaceutically improving themselves in a way that their opponents are forbidden. If they couldn’t use, they would lose. Hendo is on record saying it himself. They can use, and low and behold they keep defying age. HMMMMMM

Its not fair to the non users no matter how you try to couch the terms. If a guy is 35 and he isn’t as strong as he used to be, he isn’t as fast as he used to be, he doesn’t recover as well as he used to… and his T production fell naturally with age…. why on earth should he be able to legally boost his test to that of a 20 year old? Completely banning steroids makes alot more sense than saying certain guys can use and others can’t imo.

Take that old guy, give him test, and now he has the physical capacities of a 20 year old, with 15 years worth of fighting experience.

How is that fair to other fighters?

In this day in age, if you NEED juice to fight, you shouldn’t fight. Time to hang up the gloves.

It makes all of the sense in the world to me

Any fighter under 35 , who is a non-juicer, and is currently fighting will have the peace of mind knowing that they can compete far longer than fighters 20 years ago, since they will be able to keep their T-levels balanced out in there older years, provided it drops due to natural causes, not prior PED abuse.

Listen to Kizer’s interview on the subject, if it wasn’t for the fact that he explained the process TUE users go through, the extra scrutiny they go through, and the extra consequences(including perjury) they suffer should they fail a test, I wouldn’t have defended the TUE exemption rule in the first place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDBqAj7A3k0 start at 2:25 if you haven’t listened to it before. All of the information is right there.

Take that old guy, give him test, and now he has the physical capacities of a 20 year old, with 15 years worth of fighting experience.

How is that fair to other fighters?

Any fighter under 35 , who is a non-juicer, and is currently fighting will have the peace of mind knowing that they can compete far longer than fighters 20 years ago, since they will be able to keep their T-levels balanced out in there older years, provided it drops due to natural causes, not prior PED abuse.

I’m sure Cavalcante was comforted that he received a concussion from a guy on test because he might be able to do the same, if the government says he can… some undetermined amount of years in the future.

Your response actually doesn’t even address my argument about the immediate advantage Test gives users over non users (especially when you factor in experience older users like Hederson).

Its not fair to the people the government says can’t legally supplement with testosterone, no matter how you try to justify the guidelines for handing out TUEs… IMO

Your argument makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Cavalcante and other fighters are free to not sign the papers to fight Hendo if they have a personal issue with him having an exemption to use TRT.

Experience is not a tangible advantage over another fighter at the level Calvacante and Hendo are fighting at. If experience was such a unfair advantage, the NSAC would have prevented Brock from fighting Frank Mir or Randy Couture, they would have prevented Phil Davis from fighting Lil Nog, they would have prevented Kimbo from fighting Houston Alexander, James Thompson, .

The Lethal Haze - January 10, 2012 reply

And regarding Cavalcante, the choices you gave are “fight a guy on steroids and receive a concussion” or “don’t make money and make my employer mad at me”. That sounds fair.

James Toney, 0-0 in MMA, was licensed to fight Randy Couture, 18-10 in MMA by the Boston AC. Think about that, and then ask yourself if they had Toney’s best interest in mind when they licensed him to fight.

That should not happen. But the ACs don’t really have the fighters best interest in mind.

How many fighters have been seriously punished for not fighting teamates?

If Calvacante didn’t want to fight Hendo, he should have fought someone else. If he felt any backlash from his promoter, he should have just refused to resign his contract when the time comes, and just go somewhere else to fight, SF fighters weren’t exclusively tied down at the time, Overeem got away with it for 3+ years.

On your point about JT, he was an athlete who had 90+ professional boxing fights on his record before he stepped into the ring with Randy. Now if they were trying to set Randy up with a fight with someone like Michael Jordan for instance, who’s never fought professionally in MMA, boxing, or any sport that has a striking aspect to it, then more likely than not, the UFC would be denied from being able to put on the fight.

I don’t remember the entire story, but back in 2010 or early 2011, Strikeforce had numerous fights denied by the ACs because they considered them to be mismatches.

amendamatrix - January 10, 2012 reply

No, it's not fair

Let’s say TRT is used to raise testosterone to ‘normal levels’ for older fighters. What is a normal level of testosterone? It’s a range of values. So when an older fighter gets TRT, does he get his testosterone bumped up to the average amount, or to the top of the normal range?

Whatever it gets bumped to, that older fighter will have testosterone greater than some younger fighters who are not at the top of the normal range, but cannot get TRT. It’s a totally arbitrary distinction that allows some fighters to get TRT and prohibits the rest.

What’s especially bad about TRT are fighters like Chael Sonnen who are NOT YET OLD. The most likely reason for low testosterone in younger athletes is that they abused testosterone earlier on so their bodies stopped producing as much testosterone. In other words, if you were a total cheater that never got caught for years, and your body’s natural testosterone drops, you legally qualify for TRT, which is total BS.

spamslots - January 10, 2012 reply

and on a tangent

I’ve never actually seen anything (other than people on internet boards saying it) that confirms that Randy was on juice, legally or otherwise.

I think Joe Rogan said it in some interview ages ago.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Couture had a TUE exemption for the last couple of years.

this basically is the only type of "evidence" I have come across regarding the Natural's using

Thanks!

For actually finding a positive to this match-up!

How is Dan Henderson cheating?

He has a “therapeutic use exemption” for TRT given by the athletic commissions, so as long as he doesn’t pump up his testosterone levels above normal range, he is operating within the rules of the system.

Ben Henderson had corrective eye surgery to give him eye sight comparable to the average human prior to his first fight with Donald Cerrone, is he a cheater too? I don’t think so.

with eye surgery, we know that a person’s vision is normal or roughly normal at all relevant times. with TRT, a guy could be shooting up in testosterone levels (e.g., Sonnen), in between fights. it’s a huge difference.

Since when is a lack of testosterome a problem for cage fighters?

If you don’t have the testosterome needed to fight then you have no right being in there in the first place. He is unnaturally prolonging is career more than he should and it’s not fair to all other aging fighters whose career comes to a natural end.

Those aging fighters could get a TUE if they wanted to continue fighting well into their 40's, so I don't see the problem

As long as the reason for a fighter getting TRT is for natural causes like bad genetics, and not something caused by past steroid abuse, I don’t see an issue here.

You don't even begin to have a record like Henderson's with bad genetics

How does a guy get to the very top of the MMA world with bad genetics. It’s just absurd.

Dan has said he only had the TUE for a year or two so far( I think, I'm not looking it up)

I think he said this around the time Nate Marqauardt got cut back in August.

I looked up anyway, so Correction....

Dan has been on trt since 2007, the year he lost to Rampage and Anderson Silva.

Shocker

I know right?

He’s looked so much older since those fights.

I never said Dan Henderson had bad genes, but he likely has age related issues that caused his Testorone levels to drop

Whatever caused it, it was natural causes, not years of roid abuse or the like.

But how do you know that?

He wouldn't have gotten one otherwise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDBqAj7A3k0 start at 2:25. I rest my case.

That’s fine and all, but still how can you say for certain that Hendo never did PED’s earlier in his career? He fought like seven straight years exclusively in Japan, where we know testing wasn’t exactly stringent. Yes I know he never failed a test, but unfortunately that doesn’t exactly prove he never did anything illegal, per se.

Please note that I’m not accusing him of anything, my point is just that there is no way for you or me to know for certain whether he ever did PED’s or not.

I give Dan Henderson the benefit of the doubt for these reasons:

1 – Hendo competed in the Olympics, an organization that is way stricter on competitors using PEDs than any athletic commision and didn’t fail a test.

2 – Hendo never failed a PED test to my knowledge, and said he never has under oath, according to Kizer’s requirements. If it is found out that Hendo lied, he faces perjury charges as a consequence.

It’s not about what you know, but what you can prove. If there is no hard evidence that Dan has been juicing in his MMA career, neither you, nor I can treat him as if he did. This doesn’t mean I’m for PEDs in sports, just that I think people saying Hendo is a cheater when he currently follows the rules to the tee is very silly.

Right, and to be clear, I’ve never called him a cheater. I’m also not one to say someone has done PEDs until they’ve actually tested positive (well, except Manborg before she did). But at the same time I think a large portion of them have done stuff, and I’ll just concede to the fact that I simply don’t know. This whole TRT debate is a whole other issue though, and I don’t really subscribe to either side of the argument.

That's why they need to improve testing, especially at the higher levels of the sport.

If you start catching all of the guys who are unauthorized users of PEDs, the guys who would consider doing will it think twice about whether it is even worth it.

Oh yes, definitely agree on that one. It’s pretty much a farce as it is now, unfortunately. To quote the head USADA, the current testing is “woefully inadequate”.

If you start catching all of the guys who are unauthorized users of PEDs

That’s my whole problem with this TRT TUE nonsense. Let everyone use, or let no one use. There should NOT be “authorized” users of PEDs competing with other people who can’t use.

They are legally getting TRT. They are not buying it from some Dominican doctor. They have something called Low T that anyone, any lay man can have treated. If any other fighter has Low T, gets treatment, and stays at normal levels he is following the rules. Enough.

memitim - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

They are legally getting TRT

You keep saying this. You keep saying “They’re not cheaters, they’re following the rules!!!”

The rest of us are saying the rules are fucking retarded and don’t make sense. The fact that you have bought them whole-cloth does not mean the rest of us need to.

You see, it doesn’t matter the rules are fucking retarded. They are the rules. If after prohibition ended someone said you can’t have a drink they would call you fucking stupid. Tho advocates of weed would say what is the difference. It’s the law of the land. The guy who is selling a drink of whiskey is within the law. The guy who is selling dope goes to jail. It may be unjust but it is the law of the land. Everything else is bullshit opinion, like it or not. Hendo is abiding by the law of the land. Deal with it.

memitim - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

Its funny to watch you run around and try to be the thought police every time this discussion pops up

You see, it doesn’t matter the rules are fucking retarded.

Well if that’s not intellectual laziness, I don’t know what is. Do you agree with everything the government does ever? I’m just curious to know how much of your intellect you willingly abdicate to our elected officials.

Oh, and I’m dealing with Henderson’s juicing pretty well by saying that he’s juicing with the impunity of the AC. I just think its fucked up they don’t let everyone juice.

First, they let Hendo deal with his condition the same way any other fighter can deal with it. Thus not cheating. Second, the government officials we elect make the laws. We may not agree with them. I have huge problems with the way Wall Street operates but until laws are changed they are free to operate within the law. I, as a citizen, have to get involved to make the change happen. If you feel so strongly that Hendo has an advantage over other fighters start a campaign, write letters, get a petition going but don’t just snipe from a lower than peanut’s gallery on some website and call him a cheater when he is following the rules to a T. That is fucking pussy ass weak.

memitim - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

where'd I call him a cheater?

More intellectual laziness from memitim. Putting words in my mouth to make a psuedo intellectual point is a testament to how badly you are losing this argument.

But you know, curse some more. Or tell people DEAL WITH IT. Cause that virtually sums up your pussy ass, weak argument.

Follow the tread or shut the fuck up. You are jumping in the middle, defending your bullshit position and then wiping your hands clean. Grow some balls and tell me how Dan is cheating according to the AC’s. Oh, you can’t? Big surprise!

memitim - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

so you resort to cursing

instead of telling me to “Deal with it” LOL. That really showcases your wide grasp of the issues.

If you start catching all of the guys who are unauthorized users of PEDs

That’s my whole problem with this TRT TUE nonsense. Let everyone use, or let no one use. There should NOT be "authorized" users of PEDs competing with other people who can’t use.

That’s where I jumped in. That’s the point I made. Don’t respond to me if you can’t fucking follow what I’m writing. I didn’t call Dan a cheater because I think everyone should be able to use. Wrap your head around that if you can.

Now that I answered your bullshit question, why not answer mine?

Do you agree with everything the government does ever? I’m just curious to know how much of your intellect you willingly abdicate to our elected officials.

Grow some balls and learn how to think for yourself.

Talk about intellectually lazy, go back couple posts and read my post where I discuss the government, politicians, and their abuses. I really don’t think you understand what the words intellectually lazy mean. Maybe should go look them up and not be, you know, intellectually lazy. And I’ll fucking curse as much as I fucking want so fucking deal with it. Have a nice day.

memitim - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

You have to break the rules to cheat.

memitim - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

i think Hendo has been breaking the rules and just hasn’t been caught. if he’s on TRT, he should submit to weekly testing, all year.

Then write a fucking letter to the AC’s and get them to change Dan’s testing requirements. Till then shut up about the cheating nonsense, Hendo is operating within the rules the AC’s set forth.

memitim - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

TRT is bullshit

Farthammer - January 8, 2012 reply

I wonder how much better and longer

Guys like Michael Jordan or Muhammad Ali could have played if they were on TRT? If you’ve ever experienced the affects of increased testosterone, I’ll tell you that shit helps. You feel younger and stronger, muscles aren’t as fatigued and gains stick. It’s certainly cheating to raise your natural testosterone levels.

TRT is fine as long as those who have a use exemption are put under harsher teststing to make sure they don't use it to go over normal range.

IE: Multiple random tests leading up to and after every fight they have scheduled.

And if they do fail these harsher testing procedures, they should be banned for life from the sport or at least be denied their use exemption for the rest of their career along with some other penalty.

" It’s certainly cheating to raise your natural testosterone levels."

Raising your T to normal levels isn’t cheating, it’s medical treatment. So says the AC’s who, you know, make the rules about cheating. So, until you are on the commission and get the rules changes your opinion means jack.

memitim - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

The AC's also say a guy who has a year suspension can get it reduced by half if he yells at them.

The AC’s can suck my hog.

Farthammer - January 8, 2012 reply

The AC’s can suck your hog or not. They make the rules, not you. If you feel so strongly about it join up. Till then who gives a fuck what you think.

memitim - January 9, 2012 via mobile reply

It all comes down to if Rashad can win and be healthy enough to fight in April or May. If not Hendo will get the call, either way I can’t wait to see the fight.

dpk875 - January 8, 2012 reply

I like Hendo's chances against Jones

I think Jones beats him 7 times out 10, but I think has a good shot, if he fights smart. He’s very strong in the clinch and his cardio is possibly better than Jones’. If, and that’s a big if, he manages to that overpowered right hand of his, it will be a short night for Jones. It’s a interesting match up.

Warbreezy - January 8, 2012 reply

Are you shitting me? Hendo's cardio is not possibly better than Jones in any stretch of the imagination.

SSreporters - January 8, 2012 reply

He looked tired in the Jackson fight.

And there wasn’t exactly a shitload of action in that fight.

Warbreezy - January 8, 2012 reply

Hendo showed what his cardio is like against Shogun

Jake Shields gassed out shogun in one round with pillow-fisted ground and pound.

Think about that for minute.

gassed out Hendo

He looked tired on his way to taking down Rampage like nothing and choking him out?

This is just getting ridiculous. We get it, you don’t think Jones is good at anything.

joker24 - January 8, 2012 reply

Yeah, he looked tired from the first round.

Warbreezy - January 8, 2012 reply

Ya kinda surprised no one brings up Hendo’s “low” TRT therapy bs excuses. Once an athlete hits 35yrs its historicly & commonly the end of the road. The last 10yrs or so we’ve had a multitude of athletes playing at the same level n some even improving after their 30’s, Hmmm

Hankverdee - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

Jones probably wants to finish up the fights remaining on his contract ASAP

So then he can get that big paper.

discoandherpes - January 8, 2012 reply

That Bentley sure as hell didn't pay for itself.

Rob Young - January 8, 2012 via mobile reply

it kinda did

it was a gift from one of his sponsors, or so he says