Photo by Josh Hedges/Zuffa LLC/Zuffa LLC via Getty Images
The UFC will be making their third effort on Fox on May 5. As mentioned yesterday, the fights will be the same night as the Floyd Mayweather vs. Miguel Cotto bout on HBO PPV. Going on the same night as a major boxing event would seem to require a big main event to ensure people are willing to skip a portion of the PPV card to watch the UFC's effort.
So I was a bit surprised last night when the UFC tweeted:
So, @UFConFOX news? Diaz/Miller now the 5 round main event, also on main card heavyweight battle @LavarJohnson vs Pat @hypeordie Barry
Both of those fights are good bouts that are sure to be plenty exciting, but neither features a huge name. I have my concerns about how well this show will draw on Fox.
Again, the concern isn't about action, it's about name value. This has the feeling of a FX main event, not a headliner on a major network. You can try to sell the idea of action but people have to be drawn in by fighters they know.
The first show had a heavyweight title bout which carries a natural allure. The second event featured Rashad Evans vs. Phil Davis had a former champion who had done multiple stints on The Ultimate Fighter and had main evented multiple successful pay-per-views. In this main event you have a guy who won The Ultimate Fighter but never really took off as a top fighter against a very talented fighter who hasn't really "caught on" yet.
I look back at EliteXC's second network effort to sort of cement my thinking. Robbie Lawler and Scott Smith had put on a great show on the first CBS show, a show which averaged 4.85 million viewers. When it ended due to an accidental foul, they were rematched on the second CBS show. The promise of action was obviously not a draw as viewership dropped by over two million viewers without the Kimbo Slice name.
Obviously, the UFC name brand is at play here so I wouldn't expect the ratings to drop by 50% on the third effort, but I do think there will be a very noticeable drop.
The other thing I'm not sure the UFC and Fox realize is that the "our fights will be done before Floyd Mayweather and Miguel Cotto step into the ring" line isn't going to work as well this time around. It's looking like Saul "Canelo" Alvarez will be in the co-main event slot. Alvarez is arguably the biggest Mexican draw in the sport, fighting on Cinco de Mayo on a major PPV. It looks like Alvarez will be fighting Shane Mosley in what is a big enough "name fight" to keep the 1.5 million (early estimates for the PPV) buyers locked in to the show they shelled out $60 for, especially if the alternative is a Fox fight involving fighters the general public isn't familiar with.
I'm all for Miller vs. Diaz on Fox, I think it's a great fight and I think using Fox to elevate talented guys like that is a very good thing. I just think you have to do it with a bigger "drawing" fight in the main event slot.
0 recs | 194 comments
Yikes
I’m not sure this cuts it as a main event on Fox. It’s a great fight that I’m excited to see it but how does that drawl casual fans in? Miller and Diaz do not have huge fan bases and they aren’t well known names outside of the MMA world. I’m pretty surprised that the UFC decided to go this way.
pcusick13 - February 2, 2012
FUCK ALL THE HATERZ!!!!!!!
THEFILMGUY - February 2, 2012
.
Thats It For you! - February 2, 2012
yeah this was ridiculous
that whole event was really horrible, but it is the first pro wrestling PPV I tuned into in like 12 years or so, so I’m comparing it to a different era
Rob Young - February 2, 2012
THE RUMBLE WAS FANTASTIC
Thats It For you! - February 2, 2012
i only agree...
Because I was there…however outside of the childhood dream of going to the Royal Rumble…it was pretty lackluster…
MediaOutlaws - February 2, 2012 via mobile
The only good match was Daniel Bryan defending his title again.
The following RAW was much better though with two great matches.
Akemi Homura - February 2, 2012
Tito Forrest 3 as the lead in and you have yourself a CARD!
Kevin Jennison J. Zametov-St Pierre - February 2, 2012
came here to post exactly this
Clifford J - February 2, 2012
That is the exact fight I suggested when we were discussing this issue among the staff.
Fraser Coffeen - February 2, 2012
It’s great that this fight is 5 rounds, but headliner? Really? A guy with no personality that is on a 1 fight win streak, and another guy that’s bouncing up and down in weight as soon as he loses a couple of fights in a row? I mean, I like both guys, their fights are generally entertaining… but if Maynard/Edgar III sold like crap after the awesomeness of their 2nd fight, what makes the UFC think that Miller/Diaz is a good headliner?
Shnak - February 2, 2012
I am not sure this is a good headliner, but it depends what they are trying to do here.
If they are expecting name fighters to draw in a fan base (which may or may not have worked thus far) then this is a fail.
If they are looking for an exciting fight that could potentially win over a few viewers who aren’t sold on the UFC, then this fight might not be too bad. This fight should be exciting and has a decent chance of ending with blood everywhere or a finish.
I have been saying all along that they should focus on the lighter weight classes as they aren’t big PPV draws and they make for more exciting viewing. That is what they need if they want to draw in new fans.
truck - February 2, 2012
I agree
This fight is going to be an exciting, back & fourth fight that will display a lot of what we love about MMA. The ratings for UFC on Fox 2 did very well with headliners who recently came off of some of the lowest selling ppvs in the past 2 years, so it’s clear none of those guys were that big of stars in the first place. I think if you want to introduce more people to the sport, it will be better to have the most exciting and personable fighters headlining the free cards regardless of their drawing status before the fox deal. It’s a new era, they need to start things on the right foot and use the fox cards to build up the popularity of exciting guys Nate Diaz in a way they never could with spike fight nights, and spike prelims.
amendamatrix - February 2, 2012
I'm a casual and I'm interested.
Jim Miller and Nate Diaz are much more interesting than Maynar and Edgar in my honest opinion.
Bill P. - February 2, 2012
Casual fans don’t comment on BE…
Shnak - February 2, 2012
This is so true
and if the do comment it is not for long
Harley hooper - February 2, 2012
See I just grammer police called upon myself
Harley hooper - February 2, 2012
True
But that doesn’t mean they can’t turn new FOX viewers into hardcore UFC fans though, it just takes time and enough exciting match-ups to get them addicted.
amendamatrix - February 2, 2012
Been screamin that all day
Harley hooper - February 2, 2012
are you really...
A casual fan? I would think actively participating on BE kinda removes casual from your status lol…mainly because one trip to any respectable MMA site gives you way more info than any casual fan knows about…just my .02
MediaOutlaws - February 2, 2012 via mobile
Completely
I’ve never been near a martial arts gym in my life. Love Fedor. And hate “lay ’n pray” tactics.
Bill P. - February 3, 2012
all 4 guys are very interesting and badass
biggant - February 2, 2012 via mobile
It is a catch 22 situation to an extent. You put big names on the card and they have fairly lackluster fights and they go to a decision. So you put exciting lighter guys who guarantee fireworks, but the lighter classes just don’t draw. If they had a HW as the headliner I think it could work but who is available? If they put some names on the rest of the Main Card this could definitely work
StevenGiles - February 2, 2012
If they put lightweights on Fox consistently
Then they’re going to draw eventually. The division is just too exciting.
discoandherpes - February 2, 2012
Yeah, that’s why the WEC’s still kicking around and doing well. Oh, wait…
Shnak - February 2, 2012
Fox>Versus
discoandherpes - February 2, 2012
Sure, but any weightclass heavier than 155 > LW’s. That’s been demonstrated time and time again.
Shnak - February 2, 2012
I feel like we have this same idiotic argument every time
How much do you think Mayweather weighs? How much someone weighs is not that important to a casual viewer. The higher weight classes have better exposure historically.
discoandherpes - February 2, 2012
people are always naturally attracted to HW's
but if you get them invested in LW’s your golden because they usually have better preformances
Kevin Jennison J. Zametov-St Pierre - February 2, 2012
Agreed
There is a reason that LW’s get a large portion of FOTN bonuses
discoandherpes - February 2, 2012
Boxing isn’t MMA. Stop using anything boxing in your arguments. I honestly couldn’t care less about how much Mayweather weighs.
Shnak - February 2, 2012
There is precedence in combat sports that translate, and if you don’t see that then I don’t know what to tell you.
discoandherpes - February 2, 2012
And there is a precedence in UFC that casual fans much prefer the heavier guys than the lighter guys.
Now, I understand if the UFC wants to give a bigger push to the lighter guys by exposing them more and more, but it would have been more prudent to put Miller/Diaz as co-main and have a much bigger proven draw as the headliner.
Shnak - February 2, 2012
How big do you think GSP is?
Or BJ Penn? Or eventually Matt Hughes? All these guys have headlined and done good numbers in the past.
It’s not the weight classes that draw simply because of the weight. No one in the UFC heavyweight division is a proven draw.
discoandherpes - February 2, 2012
Hell in LHW and MW
Only Anderson and Jones are consistently putting up better than average numbers.
That whole notion is silly.
discoandherpes - February 2, 2012
Besides Brock who has retired...
Who at heavyweight is a proven big draw?
UFC 132, headlined by Faber and Cruz, two 135’ers who had little to no exposure prior to the event, did better numbers than most of the other PPVs headlined by heavier, more well-known fighters in 2011.
Why would the UFC not want to try and make stars in every weight class if they had the platform to do it?
amendamatrix - February 2, 2012
Faber is an anomaly… he’s the one recognizable guy in these lighter divisions… if he was headlining a UFC on Fox show against Cruz following their TUF season, nobody would have any problems with them headlining… but Miller vs Diaz? Yeah… not the same.
Shnak - February 2, 2012
And like I said before, I understand that the UFC wants to build up their lighter guys, but they’re also risking a major drop in viewership… I’m pretty sure the Fox execs would prefer to have more established draws on their cards…
Shnak - February 2, 2012
I don't think you understand the point of the FOX events, it's to draw new fans.
What does it matter to a newish fan if Diaz and Miller are headlining? Because if they are new or newish to the sport, they are only watching because of the UFC brand, nothing more, and I know this because that’s how I was when I was a new fan, I just watched TUF 7 and the free UFN events that aired that year because I was bored and then I just got hooked. Trust me, I didn’t care who was fighting as long as the fights were entertaining.
Rashad Evans, Chael Sonnen, and Michael Bisbing didn’t draw 4.7 million people to watch last Saturday, it was the UFC and Fox doing that.
amendamatrix - February 2, 2012
You don’t draw new fans by putting relative unknowns on top of the card… you do that by putting well-known guys at the top, then putting whoever you want to push in the co-main spot. At least, that’s why I would do it. But whatever. I’m still amped up about Miller/Diaz, it’ll be a great fight, especially 5 rounds of it.
Maybe they’ll reverse that and put the well-known guys as co-main… Grififn/Ortiz as co-main, and 5 rounds of Miller/Diaz. That’d be okay to draw the crowds.
Shnak - February 2, 2012
if you’re a new fan, then you have no idea who the “well known” guys are. hence the term “new fans”. new fans think chuck liddell should be fighting kimbo slice for the UFC championship of the world.
tha dude - February 2, 2012
What is the point of pushing guys like Forest and Tito to new fans if they are on their way out in the next year or so? The smarter play is to use the platform to get fans watching guys who would make great stars, but aren’t quite there yet, like Jon Jones, Nate Diaz, Ben Henderson, Anthony Pettis, Urijah Faber, Jose Aldo, Erik Koch, Renan Baro, Carlos Condit, and anyone else who is just plain balls to the wall exciting to watch. If new viewers like what they see from their fights, they will then recognize their names on faces on future events and will be more likely to watch because they associate those guys with highly entertaining fights. Would you want GSP to headline a show just because he’s a star? I wouldn’t, because he has a high chance of turning millions away from the sport because he has no mystique with new viewers and will turn them away with his fairly boring style.
How can a prospective fan care about big names, if they couldn’t even recognize them in a line up? The first and most important thing that should matter to someone new to a sport is if the sport is entertaining to them at all.
The responses to your post from tha dude & discoandherpes are both correct.
amendamatrix - February 3, 2012
It doesn't have to be that way again if they put them at the forefront for newer fans.
Newer fans interested in giving the UFC a chance just want to see a good fight, and the lighter weights almost always put on the best bouts compared to 170+.
If BJ penn can become a star at LW, a guy like Nate Diaz, Ben Henderson, or Edson Barboza can become one too if they are given the biggest platform to wow people.
amendamatrix - February 2, 2012
You obviously don’t remember how great BJ Penn was early on… he wasn’t called The Prodigy for nothing. None of the guys you mention can rival with early BJ Penn in terms of performance in the cage or personality outside of the cage.
Shnak - February 2, 2012
BJ Penn has no real personality outside of the cage
He is a pretty chill, uninteresting person.
discoandherpes - February 2, 2012
What exactly is so special about BJ Penn that the UFC can't replicate his stardom with another great, exciting to watch, LW/BW/FW fighter?
I don’t see anything special about his personality
I don’t see anything special about his fighting style (Doesn’t mean he wasn’t great, but it’s not like he was using Machida Karate or something to set his style apart from the average fighter)
amendamatrix - February 3, 2012
UFC Brand > WEC Brand
Kevin Jennison J. Zametov-St Pierre - February 2, 2012
Fox > FX > Spike > Versus
So…yeah.
Chris Groves - February 2, 2012
Versus was only in 75 million homes versus 99 million on spike. Even in the homes that had versus, it was, and still is a very obscure cable channel because 99% of the programing is focused on things the typical American UFC fan doesn’t like (ie: fishing and hunting). In 2010, there were only 7 WEC events on the channel, meaning the events were too sparse to keep people tuning into it.
If the WEC was aired on a network like FX, TNT, USA, TBS, Spike, etc.. it would have gotten far better ratings than it did. The sole WEC ppv, WEC 48, got 175K ppv buys and 1 million viewers from the spike prelims, which is very succesful for a promotion with no “stars”, especially since it beat the Hopkins vs Jones ppv which did 150K buys.
amendamatrix - February 2, 2012
the wec put on some nice shows and they are doing pretty well im the ufc
biggant - February 2, 2012 via mobile
But not if nobody is viewing. I agree they need lightweights on the fox cards and this would be a great co-main event for a huge draw main event like Velasquez vs Mir or Griffin vs Ortiz 3
Spider_Vemon - February 2, 2012
There is a large segment of the audience that are going to watch if it's on Fox
Just because it’s on Fox. Creating brand associating is important. If the audience can expect the UFC to be consistently exciting they can create a long term viewership and get closer to major sports numbers, then maybe get a second television deal that matches some of those bigger sports.
discoandherpes - February 2, 2012
I agree. I mean Fox is happy with the numbers the UFC is pulling in. They are already beating out other shows on other major networks during the time slot and their numbers are way higher than what Fox was airing before on Saturday nights. The key to a second and much more lucrative deal though will probably have to involve the ufc doing a few 10 mil plus viewership shows. Not as an average but at any given point. Sponsors will be more likely to buy advertisements then.
Spider_Vemon - February 2, 2012
And it’s not like they’re bombing either. They have good numbers and the fights haven’t been great. Even if they take a small hit on this card, the buzz they will generate with a Diaz/Miller fight is good for the long term health of the UFC on Fox.
discoandherpes - February 2, 2012
One thing people keep forgeting is that this is a 7 year deal
We only had one FOX event so far for this deal, give them time to build an audience and see where the numbers trend 2-3 years down the line. You’re not going to double viewership and ppv buys with only two events, you have to get people to enjoy the product enough that they get addicted to it like they have with the NFL, NBA, and MLB. Once people leave the “It’s free, I have the channel, and I don’t have anything better to watch, so I’ll give a chance” phase and start getting excited for the UFC, you’re going to see some increase in the ppv numbers, but first, you have to put on consistently EXCITING fights to keep their eyes glued.
amendamatrix - February 2, 2012
If Diaz wins, he could easily be the next guy to get a title shot
Not to mention this fight is going to be fucking nuts for five rounds. It’s a great decision for the UFC in terms of long term development.
discoandherpes - February 2, 2012
Imma say a 2.8 million viewer average at best, 2.3 at worst.
The UFC should really try to get Cain Velasquez vs Frank Mir to main event this card.
Spider_Vemon - February 2, 2012
What did Fox 2 average and it had 3 sort of not-so-great fights
It averaged like over 4.5 million right? Over 6 million still watched Evans-Davis.
And look at the first fight, objectively, for building viewers over time, Weidman-Maia was lousy….
Chris Groves - February 2, 2012
Yeah but the card also had more name value with Bisping, Sonnen, and Evans. I was far from satisfied with the fights (The Fuel TV prelims were very exciting) but I stayed tune for all the fights because A.) I’m a diehard MMA fan and B.) The names on the card are characters I’m very familiar with and care to know if they win or lose. Can’t say the same about Johnson or Berry. Both are fantastic and exciting fighters but I really do not care where their careers go from here.
Spider_Vemon - February 2, 2012
They aren't very relevant
But do you know the likelyhood of that fight ending in an awesome KO? How can you not care about that?
I mean…are you saying you aren’t going to watch this card? Com’on son.
Chris Groves - February 2, 2012
No no that’s not it at all. Im just saying im more likely to show interest in Bisping vs Sonnen than I am Johnson vs Berry.
Spider_Vemon - February 2, 2012
True
But these Fox cards are promised X amount of people just by being a free UFC card on Fox…that automatically nets them millions.
We had 3 not amazing fights over a 2.5 hour period…the event still averaged like 4.5 or 4.7 million viewers as a whole. I don’t see how something could have happened to make the Fox 2 ratings go any lower.
If you kick the night off with an epic KO and the main event is a five round war…something tells me you’ll be pulling more than the average amount of people.
I mean, the ability for a great fight to deliver huge ratings over time has kind of been proven with Griffin-Bonnar and Garcia-Jung…none of those guys were ‘draws’ before but both of those fights did great things for the ratings.
Chris Groves - February 2, 2012
The cards not bad. Id still like a little name value to boost ratings. Griffin vs Ortiz 3 for co-main event would work.
Spider_Vemon - February 2, 2012
I agree.
They need a few exciting fights more than they need names at this point.
truck - February 2, 2012
Those names matter to regular viewers.
Is that the Fox audience though? Or are they trying to grab non fans and convert them?
truck - February 2, 2012
exactly
new viewers don’t recognize any of the names unless it’s chuck or kimbo. new fans tune iin to see the UFC.
tha dude - February 2, 2012
I can’t see this event doing worse than Evans vs Davis. For new viewers, there is no fighter that is going to draw them in except for the UFC brand because they don’t know anything else, so putting on exciting fights with top talent regardless of the weight class is what they should have been doing from the start of the deal.
amendamatrix - February 2, 2012
I don't know if this is the smartest decision by the UFC or not, but that's not my problem
I know I’ll be psyched to watch this main event. I guess they’re going in a different direction after this last Fox show and trying to ensure that the fights on network TV will be exciting. I respect that, but I don’t know about the placement of Barry vs Johnson on the main card. That seems ridiculous.
mburtoni - February 2, 2012
Also, if Nick wins the interim title on Saturday, the fact that Nate is his little brother could provide a little bit more oomph for the build-up.
mburtoni - February 2, 2012
Where is Kimbo Slice at??? He can get some good ratings as a main event!!
ANance - February 2, 2012 via mobile
seriously
such a mistake cutting him. Let him be mid/low tier. Who cares really.
HeadKickLegSweep - February 2, 2012
He just draws way to well to shrug him off.
HeadKickLegSweep - February 2, 2012
Maybe once
After he loses or has a bad showing b/c of cardio issues people will stop tuning in b/c the fight don’t live up to the hype. They are going for long term fans not one hit wonders
Harley hooper - February 2, 2012
Sarcasm my friend. Sarcasm.
ANance - February 2, 2012 via mobile
Damn....good one
i can usually sense it, for I am a master of it………(bows head and walks away)
Harley hooper - February 2, 2012
It seems to me that they tried to put the big draws on the first couple cards
…and it bit them in the ass to some extent. So, put on fights more likely to be exciting and promote the hell out of it. While you may trade viewers up front, you could gain more net fans when all is said and done.
KingBrody - February 2, 2012
This is a mistep.
I think this fight is gonna be balls, so I’m really happy it will be on the main card. But I think they need a name to headline. A name that’s also in a bigger weight class. Eh. We’ll see if people are willing to tune in for free for the lighter weights. If they do, they will be treated to, what I think, will probably be one of the best fights of the year.
pud333 - February 2, 2012
Get someone like Forrest or Tito on the co-main.
But do NOT take the extra rounds from Miller/Diaz!
KingBrody - February 2, 2012
Agreed
Fox cards should be headlined by by name fighters in the well known weight classes or title fights in the BW/FW classes. Miller and Diaz are exciting fighters but if you were to ask 100 random people watching ESPN how many would know who those two guys are? If the goal is to draw in new fans I’m not sure this matchup is the right way to go.
pcusick13 - February 2, 2012
Id like to also see Aldo vs Korean Zombie headline this card. The title on the line would help boost ratings and you know it’d be action packed. After Aldos last performance he’s on the cusp of breaking out to the general publics knowledge.
Spider_Vemon - February 2, 2012
How many casuals know who Rashad Evans is?
A good amount, but not as many as you think.
discoandherpes - February 2, 2012
Rashads stint on TUF 10 and subsequent fight with Rampage brought him a lot of interest and its showed in ppv numbers that he’s headlined. The numbers arent astounding but they have grown quite a bit.
Spider_Vemon - February 2, 2012
But he isn't a consistent draw
That Rampage fight seems to be an anomaly.
discoandherpes - February 2, 2012
Yep
Chris Groves - February 2, 2012
Rashad only draws well when he fights on cards with fighters with larger fanbase than himself.
Rashad vs Tito 2 and Evans vs Silva did poor numbers
The other ppvs he’s been featured on were either stacked, or he fought guys who were simply bigger draws than himself, IE: Rampage, Forest, Chuck, and Machida at the time.
I don’t buy that Rashad is a big star.
amendamatrix - February 2, 2012
I hear what you are saying with Rashad but I feel pretty certain far more people know how he is than both Miller or Diaz. Yes, Rashad isn’t always a big PPV draw but that doesn’t mean he isn’t well known, it might simply mean that people aren’t willing to spend $50 to watch him fight. Fights on free TV need big names to draw in casual fans, if that’s what the UFC is after, and Miller and Diaz aren’t big enough names.
pcusick13 - February 2, 2012
Take the entire UFC roster
And ask the same 100 random people watching ESPN who they are. You’d be surprised how close in numbers a “name” fighter will have to an average fighter.
Genki Sudo's Choreographer - February 2, 2012
I think people are overstating the importance of "big names", they are big names within the sport, not for the rest of the world.
I think what the UFC needs is exciting fights, build the brand not the names.
Sweet Scientist - February 2, 2012
^This
Harley hooper - February 2, 2012
Also, any chance Bisping is ready to fight again by the time this card rolls around? It’s in May right? I think Bisping picked up a few new fans from his last fight and could help boost this card. A fight with Maia or Okami could get more viewer interest.
Spider_Vemon - February 2, 2012
Bisping vs Palhares!
Shnak - February 2, 2012
Id be ok with that.
Spider_Vemon - February 2, 2012
Bisping-Okami
would not attract viewer interest, and would, in all likelihood, be painfully boring.
Scott Haber - February 2, 2012
I think it would be a stand up fight the entire time. And Bisping has enough name value to bring in some viewership. Certainly more than Maia, Weidman, and Davis have.
Spider_Vemon - February 2, 2012
Okami is not fun to watch. There isn't a single fight I've enjoyed of his
Since the Tanner KO. Well, and him getting torched by Anderson.
That’s why fights like Maia vs. Okami and Bisping vs. Okami would be DOA on the main card.
SSreporters - February 2, 2012
I seem to remember the Lucio LInhares fight was pretty good
But i may be remembering it wrong
BROCKLESNAR!!!!! - February 2, 2012
That fight was on a prelim that never aired on TV, or Facebook.
So it doesn’t really count unless you’re wiling to spend $2 to watch it, or track it down on the high seas.
amendamatrix - February 2, 2012
agree 100%
biggant - February 2, 2012 via mobile
The UFC can gain more from putting names who can guarantee absolute wars, like Diaz brothers, Jim Miller, Condit, Ben Henderson, Jose Also, Charles Oliveira, Toquinho, Stefan Struve, and others, who aren’t marquee names but can make people jump into MMA just from watching one of their all-round bouts.
Big names (Evans, GSP, etc etc etc) tend to play it safe to protect their value or the UFC just creates way too much hype that it’s difficult to live up to par with it (Cain).
Playing “low-roller” is low-risk/high reward for UFC.
juziel - February 2, 2012
The last two Fox cards were less than stellar
So I agree. These guys are contenders who are exciting. It’s not like we need to pick or choose between having contenders or exciting fighters.
discoandherpes - February 2, 2012
"low risk high reward"
Exactly.
Lauren J Darkbloom - February 2, 2012
Don't see much difference from Fox 2
In terms of casual fan interest. Let’s face it, generally speaking, nobody knows who Weidman, Maia, Bisping, Chael, Davis or Evans are. Despite TUF 10, and as loud as Chael is and as polarizing as Bisping is, outside of our MMA bubble, these guys are still about as famous as a D level celebrity on a made for TV movie. I mean if we stepped outside our small community of hardcore fans and look at it objectively, how many “big names” are really in MMA?
The only criticism i have is that there is no title on the line in this card. Casuals fans like when shiny things are on the line.
Genki Sudo's Choreographer - February 2, 2012
Plus the name Diaz is about as famous as any other in MMA besides Kimbo, Chuck, GSP
and a few others.
See, that pro-wrestler, whoever he is, had the right idea. Call them “the Diaz Brothers” and hype that up. People are as likely to know Nate Diaz (even if they think he’s Nick) as to know anyone else the UFC could use to headline this show.
Lauren J Darkbloom - February 2, 2012
Seems like their strategy is to but #1 contenders matches on fox.
Not a bad way to build new stars—now you have a title fight PPV that a whole lot more people care about. If I was them, I’d put the LW title on free tv, since Frankie can’t draw for anything right now. If Maynard Edgar III had been on Fox, Edgar would be a big star now.
jhf884 - February 2, 2012
The UFC continues to make misteps with Edgar
Bendo had a great fight on the undercard of the first fight, so what do they do? Put the fight on in Japan where no one is going to watch it.
discoandherpes - February 2, 2012
Putting some lower weight class title fights on Fox would be great. Aldo, Bendo/Edgar, and Cruz could become huge draws with the extra exposure. They’re already exciting. I hope Cruz vs Faber 3 is a fox main event.
Spider_Vemon - February 2, 2012
I'd only put Cruz on Fox
Against guys who are going to bring the fight to him like Faber or Barao.
discoandherpes - February 2, 2012
Those would both be great fights.
Spider_Vemon - February 2, 2012
If Diaz wins which I think he will
He should be one fight away from the title shot.
NEW-HAMPSHIRE - February 2, 2012
This is actually smart
I think UFC on Fox 2 showed us, that even with 3 fights that aren’t exactly thrilling(two of them were downright kinda boring) that millions of people will still tune in.
Why? Because it’s the UFC, and it’s on Fox.
So, they know they have X amount of millions locked in as a ‘base’ number…so the thing they really need is a few fights that can do well in the ‘build viewers over time’.
More people might tune in for Evans vs Davis…but I bet more than a few tuned out over the course of it as well.
X amount of people tune in for Nate Freaking Diaz vs Jim Miller…the number will only go up from there. This fight is a barn burner, especially being five rounds.
On top of THAT, you are leading it in with what is likely going to be a knockout of the night candidate sort of fight. Heavyweights that throw bombs is a great way to kick off the night and get people buzzing and build the viewership heading into the main event.
Plus, if Nick happens to be the interim champ at this point…the overall name-value of a Diaz brother will just be bigger in general.
This is a good thing. For a free event you don’t need guys who bring in the big numbers off the bat…you need guys that can build the viewer number with a great fight. Which guys like Diaz and Miller are absolutely capable of.
Chris Groves - February 2, 2012
Very harsh to say that Diaz ‘’never really took off as a top fighter’‘. It implies that Diaz is a 36 year old journeyman, not a 26 year old guy just hitting his physical peak who has never convincingly lost at the weight.
If people are so thick that their nan has to have heard of a fighter before they’ll watch him, fuck ’em!
sheikybaby - February 2, 2012
Diaz hasn't even hit his prime
Not to mention that a lot of his loses were close.
discoandherpes - February 2, 2012
I really hope he get’s a rematch with Gray Maynard at some point this year.
Spider_Vemon - February 2, 2012
Belt or not,
I need to see him fight Edgar at some point.
KingBrody - February 2, 2012
Hmm I don’t see it happening unless its for the belt to be honest. Eventually Frankie is going to drop to 145 in my opinion.
Spider_Vemon - February 2, 2012
Edgar is great
But I think he is just to small to beat Nate.
TheFilt - February 2, 2012
Like he was too small to beat Maynard?
Simen - February 2, 2012
Maynard is the biggest guy in the division
How is he too small to beat Nate, especially when Nate doesn’t use his size to bully his opponents.
amendamatrix - February 2, 2012
Length
Maynard is what, 5’6"?
Diaz is 6’ with a 76" reach and knows how to use it.
TheFilt - February 2, 2012
Maynard beat Diaz in a shitty 3 round boxing match, Edgar is definitely capable of beating him. Reach and size isn’t everything, if Edgar uses his speed and technique (great boxing, great wrestling, very good BJJ), he could potentially make Nate look terrible in a five round fight.
Also, Nate will not have a cardio advantage in that fight.
amendamatrix - February 2, 2012
That was years ago
Nate is obviously much, much better now.
Nate would definitely have the cardio advantage. Its a whole other level.
TheFilt - February 2, 2012
Nate’s not drastically better than he was before. His wrestling still isn’t where it needs to be to fight someone like FE, because he will wind up on his back against someone with killer cardio, good BJJ, and equal, if not more toughness than himself.
Nate weakness has been exposed time and time again by inferior fighters to FE, Rory Macdonald, Dong Hyum Kim, Stevenson, and Guida all out-wrestled him within the last 2.5 years. The only recent fight that I can say where he look great was against Cerrone, who fought completely unlike himself. Gomi is no longer a top tier fighter, since getting his butt whooped by Guida on the feet.
amendamatrix - February 2, 2012
Nate is clearly much, much better
if you can’t see that, I’m not going to waste my time arguing with you.
TheFilt - February 2, 2012
Its almost like you didn't even watch those fights you listed
I’m done here.
TheFilt - February 2, 2012
Nate has some pretty decent wrestling and judo in the clinch and some
Edgar takes guys down not really with the intent to hold them down, but to make them think twice about opening up against him, setting up his striking.
discoandherpes - February 2, 2012
*it's not supposed to read and some. It was just supposed to read "in the clinch and"
discoandherpes - February 2, 2012
Reach and size isn't everything
But Nate is clearly the better boxer. He’s got some of the best punching accuracy in MMA with an insane work rate.
His timing and distance have looked superb lately.
Edgar could win on points for his TD’s but he wouldn’t stay in Nate’s guard or dominate the stand up.
TheFilt - February 2, 2012
I strongly doubt that Nate's boxing is going to overcome Edgar because he will wind up on his back whenever Edgar decides to put him there.
Even with that being the case, Edgar’s stand up is great, he’s better than BJ Penn, proven TWICE, better than Maynard, proven TWICE and one being a KO. If Diaz’s boxing is so lethal, he would have at least won that terrible boxing match with Maynard.
Edgar has great submission defense and is a legit brown belt under Renzo Gracie, so no, he can fight him anywhere on the ground and he won’t get subbed. Edgar has proven four times already that he can go 5 rounds non-stop, one of those fights being in Abu Dhabi, where the temperature in the arena was a lot higher than the air conditioned ones Nate is used to fighting in, so don’t even try convince anyone Edgar is going lose the cardio war with Nate, because it just won’t happen.
I like Nate Diaz, but I have defend FE against ignorant comments like this.
amendamatrix - February 2, 2012
You have a very high opinion of Edgar's abilities
If you think Frankie is a better boxer than BJ, that says enough to me right there.
Diaz fought Maynard two years ago, and has looked many levels better since that time. Not to mention he has actually finished Maynard before.
There’s nothing ignorant whatsoever about what I said. I even said Frankie was great.
TheFilt - February 2, 2012
You are seriously writing off Nate's ground game
Nate submitted Ryan Hall. Do you know who that is?
TheFilt - February 2, 2012
Who a person has submitted outside of the sport of MMA irrelevant, because we’re talking about two MMA fighters, not two BJJ fighters. Ground fighting in MMA, is not comparable to No-Gi grappling. Edgar has been underneath a BJJ champion in BJ Penn and got up easily, what’s Nate going to do FE on the ground that a hungry BJ Penn couldn’t do?
Also, how could you possibly say Penn’s striking is better than FE after watching there second fight? Penn is a one round wonder, he often looks great when he is winning, but as soon as he starts losing a fight, he NEVER comes back.
Nate beating Cerrone, in no way makes his boxing clearly better than Edgar, who has beaten all of their common opponents.
amendamatrix - February 2, 2012
Who a person has submitted outside of the sport of MMA is irrelevant
amendamatrix - February 2, 2012
I just think you don't know what you're looking at
or never watched the fights.
TheFilt - February 2, 2012
I don't watch the fights?
You, on the other hand, can’t even back up your argument with evidence from Diaz’s or Edgar’s past fights and history.
All you’ve said so far is that Diaz’s losses were in the past, he’s a better fighter now, and he has some reach and cardio. The silliest thing you said was Penn having better boxing than FE, despite losing to him twice in a row, the second time being far more dominant than the first.
amendamatrix - February 2, 2012
And Guida
Chris Groves - February 2, 2012
god guida at 145 would be amazing
THEFILMGUY - February 2, 2012
Guida vs. Griffin II?
SSreporters - February 2, 2012
and Nate has been getting better and better except for the Rory Mac beatdown and he is still very young
biggant - February 2, 2012 via mobile
There are no guarantees
but I’d say this has a much better chance of being a really entertaining, competitive and aggressive fight than we’ve seen on any of the previous Fox shows. Hardcores and medium cores will tune in, because a) it’s free MMA and b) those guys are awesome. As for the ever elusive “casual” fan, if they do tune in, they are very likely to be treated to the kind of fight that can make you into a hardcore fan. I love having this fight on the card, and I don’t hate it being the main event.
Dave Strummer - February 2, 2012
5 rounds
of these two gives a good chance for people to tune in as the fight goes on and inevitably grows more awesome.
TheFilt - February 2, 2012
Hate to say it but this might end up resembling Diaz v. Huggy Bear, but with a few decent sub attempts buy both fighters.
Hardy's in your face - February 2, 2012
Highly, highly doubt it
Neither guy ever has a boring fight.
They will both preform like the balls-to-the-wall bad ass mofos they are.
Miller has never been a LnP guy and Diaz doesn’t allow that anyway.
TheFilt - February 2, 2012
no way a huggy bear fight, both these guys are killers
biggant - February 2, 2012 via mobile
Think they stick with three fight main cards?
Give this event one more solidl matchup and it’ll be a fun card.
Forrest vs Machida/Jackson II?
Bigfoot Silva vs Frank Mir or Cheick Kongo?
Tim Bernier - February 2, 2012 via mobile
Cheick Kongo
will still be in the hospital from what Mark Hunt does to him.
NEW-HAMPSHIRE - February 2, 2012
Judging by the 2 fights announced so far, it’s obvious the UFC wasn’t satisfied with UFC on FOX 2. From now on, they will put ‘fireworks’ matchups on Fox cards.
And Nate Diaz has become a big name.
Kenya_MMA - February 2, 2012
There really do look like UFC on FX main card fights. The main card should be exciting, and I would guess the winner of Miller vs Diaz will be number one contender, but I can see the concern as far as ratings and drawing in casuals is concerned. UFC on Fox is treated to a higher standard, and for good reason, and having a main card that fits with a UFC on FX card doesn’t fit that standard.
chrisbboy82 - February 2, 2012
depends on Nick Diaz
If Nick Diaz wins this weekend and his feud with GSP gets a higher profile, then Nate will get some “shine” from big brother Nick.
Watching 141 with some VERY casual family members, they all went nuts for the Diaz/Cerrone fight with the pre fight packages and then the craziness during touching gloves, and the action delivered
Ben Bauman - February 2, 2012
man I wish cerrone actually fought in those first 2 rounds.
djfivenine - February 2, 2012
It's hard to fight
When your getting punched in the face 200 times
discoandherpes - February 2, 2012
Lol
Stockton slap, or whatever, i’m sure it sucks to have it repeatin on ya face.
Harley hooper - February 2, 2012
true
For last weekend’s Fox show, I didn’t bother to call the casuals, because I knew the action wouldn’t do much for them.
For the Nate Diaz – Miller fight, I will definitely get the bat signal out for the casuals. The same goes if Cerrone has any more fights on free TV—his Cowboy hat schtick is marketing genius for casuals.
Ben Bauman - February 2, 2012
Good fight for a MMA fan
but the casual or non fans won’t tune in for these names.
Forrest vs Machida will complete this card
djfivenine - February 2, 2012
good fight if Forrest gets his head back in the game if not he will get tuned up again
biggant - February 2, 2012 via mobile
Forrest and Tito are lobbying for a rubber match
TheFilt - February 2, 2012
On Fox, they will tune in because it's FREE UFC on network tv.
Casual fans don’t know or care who Weidman, Davis, and Maia are, but they tuned in anyway.
Casual fans only care about Rashad, Bisping. and Sonnen if they are fighting certain people who they have high profile feuds with, otherwise, no drawing power on their own. New/Non fans don’t know ANY UFC fighters besides Brock, and maybe Chuck, so it doesn’t matter who’s fighting on FOX as long as the fights are entertaining.
amendamatrix - February 2, 2012
Would like to've seen them set up a match that leads to something...
… like the last event setting up title shots. Possible post fight face-offs, etc. Gives casual fans who tune in, the incentive to follow up, and potentially order a ppv. Neither of these guys are really in the title hunt at this point. And I can’t imagine the ultra dynamic personalities of either guy really pulling in too many eyeballs. Great main event for a Fight Night, just not sure about such a higher profile card like this.
woooburn - February 2, 2012
hopefully in the long run putting on cards like this one will make the casual fans watch more.
Harley hooper - February 2, 2012
I think they are trying to focus on entertaining match ups, something a casual fan can watch and say “wow that was a good fight I’ll tune in to watch that guy again and whenever the UFC is on free tv”. Eventually the casual fan gets to know the fighters and will buy the PPVs.
Harley hooper - February 2, 2012
It'll probably do 3.5 mil at best
The idea of Jim Miller headlining a card even though he’s headlined precisely one card in his career (two weeks ago) is silly, but NATE DIAZ AND JIM MILLER ARE IN A FIVE ROUND FIGHT PEOPLE!
SSreporters - February 2, 2012
One of the downsides I can see potentially coming out of this would be if
Nate Diaz blasts the double birds at Jim on live television. Granted there is the 8second delay or whatever but how is that gonna impact possibly a young viewer who has persuaded the family to watch for the first time.
I not one to cry “Please think of the children” but this could be damaging for the sport
And yes I know that there is a warning at the beginning of the broadcast saying “viewer discretion is advised” and all that but it still could be an issue.
Mjub - February 2, 2012
Its FOX
That wouldn’t be the end of the world for them.
TheFilt - February 2, 2012
Yeah I understand that
but I meant more for the sport. Just another thing people can latch onto and say “SEE! These guys are just thugs” etc etc
Mjub - February 2, 2012
THAT IS A DISGUSTING ACT BY RANDY MOSS.
dribblebib - February 2, 2012
They want the winner of this fight to get the next title shot. Fox is happy with beating all the other major networks while the UFC gets their next title challenger some steam before heading into the title fight.
Afrotikiman - February 2, 2012 via mobile
Why does everyone want forrest to fight Machida?
seems cruel. Should have never made the Vera fight and put Shogun vs Thiago on this card and have Vera face Machida or Forrest.
NEW-HAMPSHIRE - February 2, 2012
I'd rather see him vs Hendo
dajulzta - February 2, 2012 via Android app
The Johnson Barry fight is a great call. If the Simpsons and Family Guy have taught me anything it’s that Fox viewers love a good dick joke.
mcgriff - February 2, 2012
It's early on in the Fox deal...
UFC and Fox are probably trying different things and seeing what works best. With this card they are putting lesser known guy on but a better bet to have more exciting fights, last time they went with some bigger names and title shot stakes, but match-ups that everyone thought would likely be less exciting.
It is so easy to get paralysis by analysis this early in the Fox/UFC relationship. The numbers for Fox 2 dipped some, but they still were better than what Fox normally does on a Saturday not to mention it killed in a very desireable demographic. I saw the overnights got the same rating Tiger Woods’ first win in many years last year got. If you walk to networks and tell them that, they’d be thrilled.
The key here is Fox and UFC are seemingly willing to try new things with these shows and see what clicks (same as FX and Fuel shows). not like if this event doesn’t do well, Fox is walking away. Fox and Zuffa will make determine why they think it didn’t do well and adjust as they move forward.
The Fox/UFC and CBS/Strikeforce deals are completely different animals IMO due to length, UFCs recognizable brand and money involved. Even though they are both MMA Network deals, they don’t have much in common and almost like comparing apples and oranges
ChicagoMMAFan - February 2, 2012
Seems more FX than Fox
I thought they were gonna load up the card with Mex-American fighters in an attempt to get more latino viewers, by adding Cain if he’s ready or the much talked about Griffin-Ortiz math up. Well, it might not generate big business but it’s a hell of a great fight (Miller-Diaz).
clarkkentpunch - February 2, 2012
match up
damn.
clarkkentpunch - February 2, 2012
do they have the 3 fights picked yet?
I know this is the main and the HD fight looks like it’s on Fox, but did they name the 3rd fight? Maybe they’ll put the Ortiz-Griffin on between those two fights as “names” and showcase the younger guys.
ChicagoMMAFan - February 2, 2012
The casual fans don't need to know Miller or Diaz
It’ll take less than a minute for them to release this is going to be a high pace fight. A Bunch of scrambles and bad positions. Should be great!
Frank Lee - February 2, 2012
*realize
Frank Lee - February 2, 2012
They won’t “release” anything if they don’t ever bother to watch the card in the first place.
Shnak - February 2, 2012
didn't know the grammar police was on duty
Frank Lee - February 2, 2012
Yep
Most Anoying asspeck to the internets in my opinion. I liken them to Police officers who bully people when they get older just because they were bullied when they were younger. Just cause your engrish teacher flunked you doesn’t mean you need to be dickish anonymously online :-P
cager - February 2, 2012
Wooo Wooop
step away from the keyboard.
Harley hooper - February 2, 2012
I put it around quotes as a joke, not to correct you… you obviously had corrected yourself before my comment. Relax.
Shnak - February 2, 2012
Sure it can do well
This should be built as winner fights for the LW title, along with trying to show that Diaz and Miller are two of the most exciting fighters on the planet.
Also one of the biggest selling points of Nate Diaz is Nick Diaz.
goodbadugly16 - February 2, 2012
outside of real mma fans, this is not a good draw
BUT, it should be a pretty exciting fight – the best that they (the UFC) can hope for is that casual fans will tune in out of curiosity or stumble on it and be treated to what will likely be a really good fight.
then…they will come back more and more
phantom5691 - February 2, 2012
terrible pick as the main event
2nd or 3rd event yes, but main event, no.
Kid Kimura - February 2, 2012
Very, very few people can name more than 2 UFC fighters
Maybe less now that Brock retired.
Hell, most People have no idea who BJ Penn is.
I honestly believe that casual fans tune in to action rather than names.
TheFilt - February 2, 2012
Well the UFC is 0-2 today.
First the Vera-T. Silva rematch now this. Can’t wait to see what they come up with next so 4 fox cards a year right and one just got over with so 3 left and they just wasted the main event.
nickrodamous - February 2, 2012
Vera-T. Silva rematch is a great idea, period.
Body Triangle - February 2, 2012
I like the idea use it to build stars and take a chance on a guy
but why the hell is Lavar Johnson and Pat Barry on this main card they are both bad sure they’ll knock eachother out but thats a waste of a slot.
MaZZacare - February 2, 2012
I thought by now they would have all the wrinkles ironed out of this FOX deal. Seems like they are confused as to which caliber/name fighters should go on which card/station. Just a couple weeks ago Pat Berry was the opener on a Friday night FX card now he jumps to the main card on FOX? I don’t get it. It’s like the big heavyweight fight on FOX was a tease now we are getting treated to fight night style Spike cards on FOX I feel slighted as a hardcore fan and feel bad for the casuals who will not be tuning in. This whole thing seems botched by the UFC big time from the timing of cino de mayo to the fight card itself this thing is doomed already.
nickrodamous - February 2, 2012
You thought about 6 months...
and 2 cards in that everything would be ironed out with the first long term MMA Network deal? Really??!?!?
ChicagoMMAFan - February 2, 2012
I guess a lot of people thought this...smh
Harley hooper - February 2, 2012
Elite XC
had it figured out better than the UFC does thats a reason to be “smh” guarantee both the CBS cards will have better ratings than this piece of shit might as well go back to spike.
nickrodamous - February 2, 2012
Elite XC had it figured out alright
And where are they right now?
amendamatrix - February 2, 2012
Mexican Fight fans
You headline a Spanish name on a may 5th fight card all Latinos will watch. Headline a guy of Mexican decent all Mexicans will watch Smart move by UFC. Now they need one more name that the Mexican public identifies with.
piojopeligroso - February 2, 2012 via mobile
Should be great f'ing fight but not a FOX main event
Guess it’s trial and error in the beginning stages. Wonder what rating they think they’ll need to pull.
Would rather see Melendez leave already and get a crack at UFC gold before Miller or Nate.
lwood24 - February 2, 2012 via iPhone app
ME LIKEY
This fight has the potential to be a war something that no fight shown on FOX has been, Diaz brings it and Jim Miller can eat some punches. Newer UFC fans will watch this and it could (if good enough) get them to search up on previous fights on either guy which is a good thing
Sonnens Political Adviser - February 2, 2012
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