The sudden emergence of New York Knicks point guard Jeremy Lin as the first-ever Asian-American (as opposed to Asian) NBA super-star has given lots of people in the American sports world the opportunity to trip over themselves by making racially insensitive remarks.
First ESPN writer Anthony Federico was (justifiably IMO) fired for composing this genius headline: "Chink in the Armor: Jeremy Lin's 9 Turnovers Cost Knicks in Streak-stopping Loss to Hornets." Then MMA Live host Max Bretos (this is our MMA tie-in if you're wondering) caught a 30-day suspension for using the phrase in an interview with Knicks great Walt Frazier (video after the jump).
Bretos' ESPN colleague Michael Kim took to Twitter to defend Bretos:
"There are thousands of fine, outstanding people at ESPN who I am proud to call colleagues, including Max Bretos. I truly believe it was an unfortunate use of words but I KNOW there was no malice there. That came on live TV. But there's a different thought process involved with scripts/copy and headlines. Am I disappointed this happened at ESPN? Yes. But...There is no finer place to work. It is a company that has made diversity in its workforce a priority. I am confident we'll be better because of this in the future. . . . Now if you'll excuse me, my son and I are going to enjoy rooting for the NBA role model I never had. #Linsanity."
Of course this made me think of boxing where Floyd Mayweather inserted himself into the discussion to bag on the hype around Lin:
Jeremy Lin is a good player but all the hype is because he's Asian. Black players do what he does every night and don't get the same praise.
And that's short beer compared to the bravura insensitivity displayed by boxing promoter Don King and Mexican-American heavyweight Chris Arreola. Full transcript of that dialog after the jump:
"We even brought in a Mexican-American to give him a chance to get out and be at the front of the forefront. No more wetbacks running up and down picking the fruits and things. Now, we're rolling, you know what I mean," King said, drawing more than a few gasps from the assembled media and supporters of the Sweet Science. "That's what makes this country so great, you know what I mean? Yesterday's nobody is tomorrow's somebody. So I'm very thrilled and I'm humbly honored to be in Corpus Christi. Texas, hear my cry. V-I-C-T-O-R-Y. Victory is ours."
Arreola, who expressed the requisite amount of respect toward Molina, heard King's cry but wasn't in a celebratory mood.
"I do take offense on that wetback thing because both of my parents are wetbacks and I'm proud of being a wetback myself. I am honored to be Mexican, 100 percent," said Arreola, who is scheduled to meet Molina in a 10-rounder. "So if you don't take offense by him saying wetback, I sure do. And this wetback right here, it's going to be a great, great honor to shut your mouth Saturday night. When we get to this arena we're going to put on a great show for these people."
King later tried to clarify the remark, saying, "Chris you may have gotten the wrong intent . . . because we're all wetbacks, baby."
From the Corpus Christi Caller-Times via Bad Left Hook.
It just goes to show any discussion of race in America remains a tiptoe through a minefield. We've got everything from genuine bad actors like Federico to those like Bezos who just step in it inadvertently, then there's Mayweather and Don King in a league of their own.
1 recs | 322 comments
Whole lotta class going around.
MicahtheCynic - February 20, 2012
This actually could have implications for the UFC's TV deal here in the UK.
I suspect one of the only reasons MMA Live is still running is because the UFC’s contract with ESPN UK mandates a talk show. If the show dies because of this it could affect the ongoing talks between the UFC and ESPN International. Although if BSkyB does pick up the UFC Bellator will probably be on ESPN within days.
MattParker117 - February 20, 2012
There's no way they just can't poach Jonathan Coachman to do this show
There’s no link to Bretos’ suspension being tied to anything you just wrote.
SSreporters - February 20, 2012
Forgive me my coffee and energy drink fuel nonsense. (Insomnia sucks by the way)
MattParker117 - February 20, 2012
Haha
this is too funny.
RolloTomasi - February 20, 2012
MY GOD.
His internal thought process is the gold…
“Did I just… Oh God. I did.”
Shotokanman - February 20, 2012
But only after a few days.
Unabomberman - February 20, 2012
"Chink in the Armor?" Wow. That's not even funny.
I’m sure Federico thought he was brilliant for coming up with that one.
pud333 - February 20, 2012
I still think Link should have forgiven him.
Listen. People who write stuff make mistakes. Even though it was a god awful mistake, I still think should not have been fired.
SheepleBuster - February 20, 2012
Lin did forgive him.
He got fired because he’s a copy editor. Bretos didn’t get fired because he asked a question in the middle of an interview, and no one cared. No one even cared about Bretos until the headline came up. Headlines are made by editors, they have different responsibilities than writers/anchors, that’s why he got fired.
Phildo - February 20, 2012
Yeah. Different positions of power unfortunately bring different levels of scrutiny.
pud333 - February 20, 2012
There was also a different phrasing at play which makes it much less offensive.
With the headline there’s a pretty straightforward implication that Lin is the “chink” in the armor, while in the interview he was asking if Lis has a chink in his armor.
I feel the one was an attempt a cleverness that bombed due to racial insensitivity, while the other one is guilty of using a correct, though contextually offensive sounding, word. Same deal with calling someone “niggardly”. If he’s a cheap white dude, then most people wouldn’t bat an eyelash, but if he’s a man of color…
Bloody L - February 20, 2012
No, in the headline the “chink” is Lin’s susceptibility to turnovers, not that Lin is the Knick’s “chink”. The outrage is the feeling that word was used on purpose with Lin since he is Asian.
schm1583 - February 20, 2012
It doesn’t matter which is which, you can’t use the word chink when dealing with asian people, you just can’t.
I’m usually one of the first people to call out the pc police for doing too much, but this is a pretty obvious fuck up.
A copy editor’s job is to make sure shit like this doesn’t get on the website.
Phildo - February 20, 2012
Did not say it was ok, Just clarifying since the above commenter thought it was specifically referring to him as a chink, which was not the case.
schm1583 - February 20, 2012
BTW never heard the term niggardly, I would think it would always be offensive though.
schm1583 - February 20, 2012
It doesnt derive from the same root
But sounds similar to the n word so it is a risky word to use
Arca MMA - February 21, 2012 via mobile
What does it even mean?
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
Stingy
Sparingly
TheFilt - February 21, 2012
Huh
I must be sheltered because I have never heard of it. btw I am niggardly (first and last time I use the word)
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
haha americans are funny...
it s like everything a human does is somehow linked to how they look
alibabarouge - February 20, 2012 via mobile
Us american's don't have any kind of copyright on prejudice, brebruh.
SanFranpsycho - February 20, 2012
We just perfect it by being subtle. ;)
SSreporters - February 20, 2012
No kidding.
Don’t want things getting all Hotel Rawanda.
SanFranpsycho - February 20, 2012
not if you’re Pat Buchanan.
Victor Rodriguez - February 20, 2012
that's because americans don't actually all look alike
ethnic homogeneity is so 19th century
mollcutpurse - February 20, 2012
As soon as soccer racism is brought in to check
Then we’ll talk about American sport fans being racist. There are still large amounts of “fans” in Europe who chant like monkeys and throw bananas at black players, absolutely disgusting!
Randomguy81 - February 20, 2012
The 'Beautiful Game' is down right ugly at times
The mob football hooligan mentality ruined it for me years ago.
KJ Gould - February 20, 2012
Unfortunately "mob rule" is a way of life in soccer
Each and every year soccer hooligans find ways to shame the sport in new and creative ways. Just look at what happened in Egypt just recently. It seems like you hear about riots killing more people than the Who concert in Cincinnati or the Stones incident in Altamont all the damn time.
Randomguy81 - February 20, 2012
There was no riot in at the Who concert in Cincinnati.
That tragedy was caused by festival seating and a venue that created bottlenecks at the point of entry, not hooliganism.
Steve4192 - February 20, 2012
Green Street Hooligans is a great movie though.
truck - February 21, 2012 via mobile
At least we're not hung up on odor
NSFW (language) Tupac Serbia
menckenstein - February 20, 2012
This line made my day:
Where the hell did this insanity come from?
Unabomberman - February 20, 2012
I think you meant
“Where the hell did this Linsanity come from?”
Sean in Vancouver - February 20, 2012
Europeans are some racist assholes and anyone who has been to a football game there agrees
justsomehawkeyefan - February 20, 2012
YES.
let us generalize the whole lot of them based on some asshole fans at soccer games.
like you don’t hear racism or homophobia at baseball games?
Victor Rodriguez - February 20, 2012
Nope
just Chuck Testa
Andy Anderson - February 20, 2012
shit
you got me. that was good.
Victor Rodriguez - February 20, 2012
I am pretty good
from time to time. Also my roommate has a valid theory that I am the living embodiment of The Miz
Andy Anderson - February 20, 2012
For the win.
NickRingp4pGOAT - February 21, 2012
Just like how no one in Europe draws broad generalizations about race problems in America based on the behavior of a relatively small number of bigots.
Look, let’s just put it this way: America has some major problems with race. No doubt about it. On the other hand, Europe had ethnic cleansing problems as late as the 90s, and lets not forget the Holocaust. People like to paint the Nazis as some bizarre cult that did all kinds of things the German people would never have even conceived of, but not really. That stuff had been brewing for a long long time before Hitler hit the scene. France also had what would have been called a race riot if it had happened in LA a few years ago. Racism is not an American phenomena. It’s pretty prevalent everywhere. It’s why african tribes nobody else can tell apart massacre each other all the time. That’s not an excuse for America, but racism isn’t our special shame.
But anyways, I think I got off topic.
toxic - February 20, 2012
Agree
I dont like the way justsomehawkeyfan talks about Europe IN GENERAL which is no fair at all, talking about multiple countries having entirely different culture and people.
The bad thing in racism is that its such a blade which can hurt ANYONE, regardless of ANYTHING. The racism is a word that can be used as the word " spy" or “capitalist” in the MAOist CHina where people’s only thing to do was to report on basically ANYONE they didnt like, and tell the police that they are not ok? And those went instantly to prison. I think many are overreacting to this , they use it as a blade that can hurt anyone really..It’s sad for someone to get fired for a sentence he just dropped in a conversation without any malice. People tend to use the word "racist " as “terrorist”
szanpan - February 21, 2012
and i dont see why Mayweather should apologise for anyone
for expressing his opinion on this matter. As far as I m concerned this guy Lin is clearly overhyped because he is a rare Chinese player in such a sport where Chinese don’t often get successful. Although lets say we could see in the Beijing Olympics that Chinese are very strong when it comes to other sports. People take it as they want to.
szanpan - February 21, 2012
Am I crazy to think that
Getting cut buy multiple teams
Turning a bad injured team into a winner
Playing in NY
Being a Harvard grad
Setting an all time record for points in 1st 5 starts
…has more to do with the fuss than him being Asian – American?
His ethnicity adds another angle, but it hasn’t been at the centre of anything I’ve read.
truck - February 21, 2012 via mobile
Well, to play devil's advocate for a mo...
I’ve been to literally hundreds of games of football in my life. Here in Scotland, mostly following my local team Ross County. And since 1993 I’ve never heard any racist abuse from our fans. Fortunately British soccer has managed to at least begin to deal with racial abuse at games, we’ve come a long way from the early 80s when fans would make monkey noises & throw bananas on the pitch in large numbers.
Of course, in Scotland religious issues related to the conflict in Ireland crop up, that’s a far worse problem in this country than race :-\
forkboy - February 21, 2012
Personally, I think it’s quite possible that the guy did the Chink in the Armor thing entirely accidentally. I mean, the expression is commonly used to mean a weakness getting exposed. I never once thought of connecting it to a racial slur until this incident. Poorly chosen headline, sure. Unfortunate homonyms? Sure. Firing offense? Only because everyone flipped out about it.
It might be that the guy is getting fired for being less racist than everyone else.
toxic - February 20, 2012
The on air usage appears innocent to me,
but the text headline is much sketchier. Particularly given the same headline was used on ESPN when the USMNT beat China’s men’s basketball team.
lowellthehammer - February 20, 2012
My bad, it was when they beat Spain's team, but the Olympics were held in Beijing.
lowellthehammer - February 20, 2012
So… you’re kind of proving my point here. People are so sensitive that a perfectly harmless expression that has no connection to racism whatsoever (armor does have chinks) but becomes a big issue if people can draw any kind of connection to China at all.
toxic - February 20, 2012
Well the headline on ESPN came across as racist to me
They had a pic of Jeremy Lin turning the ball over with “CHINK IN THE ARMOR!?!” below it.
Max whatever was just using a normal phrase.
HaterSlayer - February 20, 2012
I wish I would have seen the headline before everything blew up, to see if I would have even made the connection.
schm1583 - February 20, 2012
It said chink in the armor and had a picture of a chinese dude. It doesn’t take a big leap to make the connection.
Phildo - February 20, 2012
I actually do not think I would have thought about it mainly because I am a very literal person
schm1583 - February 20, 2012
Life really gets complicated then when someone tells you to "break a leg" then....
SSreporters - February 20, 2012
I get very angry when ppl tell me that
schm1583 - February 20, 2012
Even if they are talking about your 3rd leg?
truck - February 21, 2012 via mobile
For the record
Lin is actually Taiwanese, apparently you have to go pretty far back for his ancestors to live in China
Sean in Vancouver - February 20, 2012
Well to sum up a few thousand years of complicated history in a few sentences
Taiwan was China 75 years ago by everyone’s agreement, except for when it was ruled by Japan before that for awhile. And if you ask the (PRC) Chinese, it’s still China. If you’re ever in mainland China, don’t mention the possibility that Taiwan might be its own country, they don’t like that. I found that out the hard way.
joker24 - February 20, 2012
My very hard to offend Chinese baby mama thought it was offensive.
A number on my Chinese friends agree. We aren’t exactly a PC bunch either.
That comment didn’t make print by accident. At least one and possibly multiple people thought they were being funny.
truck - February 21, 2012 via mobile
Here it is
When I first saw it I went, “REALLY?”
HaterSlayer - February 20, 2012
should probably put your phone on a charger
Kevin Jennison J. Zametov-St Pierre - February 20, 2012
It's racist to use the phrase talking about the USA basketball team not looking as strong as expected, when they were playing a Spanish team
Because it was in China? That PC-meter is off the fucking charts.
joker24 - February 20, 2012
I thought it was after they played China.
Chill.
lowellthehammer - February 20, 2012
It's more like...
He had a laugh, got caught, got fired… and now regrets it so gives an apology after people’s feeling have been hurt.
Kid Kimura - February 20, 2012
That video looks completely fine to me.
I don’t think someone should be suspended if an announcer said Kevin Garnett was going through a “dark period.”
That headline was pretty brutal though.
SanFranpsycho - February 20, 2012
Yeah Bretos' wife is Asian too. So I don't think there was any intent
The editor had time to come up with a better headline.
SSreporters - February 20, 2012
?!
People use the term Chink in the Armor all the time, but now it’s unacceptable because he’s Asian?!
Shaun32887 - February 20, 2012
Correct.
RolloTomasi - February 20, 2012
That's idiotic.
The race of the subject doesn’t change the meaning of the phrase.
Llewdor - February 20, 2012
but context does
jthin - February 20, 2012
The hope, at least for me, is someday that phrase can be used to with the context of an Asian with no one making the connection to race, but it does not seem like that will ever happen.
schm1583 - February 20, 2012
yes i guess we can soon witness the deletion of the colours from the dictionary
szanpan - February 21, 2012
Intentionally using a racial slur as part of a pun is not cool.
There is no grey area.
truck - February 21, 2012 via mobile
Wow. This is so amazing.
Look up the slur “chink” and it’ll all become clear.
SSreporters - February 20, 2012
I have no problem with the phrase ‘chink in the armor’, as it has nothing do with ethnicity. Chink is a legitimate English word meaning crack or fissure that predates the racial slur. However, the way that Federico used it was CLEARLY a play on Lin’s ethnicity, so he got what he deserved.
Steve4192 - February 20, 2012
Context matters.
Unabomberman - February 20, 2012
So do semantics. The words mean what the words mean.
Llewdor - February 20, 2012
Cool! So when Dana White called Loretta Hunt a faggot
He meant the following definition:
SSreporters - February 20, 2012
he meant bundle of sticks obvs
sometimes you people overcomplicate things
The Lethal Haze - February 20, 2012
Language isn't static.
sun yue - February 20, 2012
I know what "chink" means. I also know what "chick in the armor" means.
They’re unrelated. If he’d used the phrase “iron chink”, I could see what that would be offensive, as that is related to the racial slur (an iron chink was a canning machine used to replace chinese fishery workers).
Etymology matters.
Llewdor - February 20, 2012
Impact matters
Especially when it’s on a public forum.
D Squared - February 20, 2012
ESPN Headlines are never double entendres
Oh wait…
cyph - February 20, 2012
Whoever rec'd this is a douche.
MicahtheCynic - February 20, 2012
That person unrec'd it
hahaha
av1o3 - February 20, 2012
The fact that someone went back and re-reced it is comedy gold.
SanFranpsycho - February 20, 2012
Rec but only because I come from a mixed family.
I am halve douche and half retard….Sadly I cant never go full retard.
malo - February 20, 2012
You can if you really work at it.
Unabomberman - February 20, 2012
I rec'd it specifically because you said that.
ZapRowsdower - February 20, 2012
you are bringing down the level
all commenters with random numbers after their nicknames. Chris would be ashamed
Cory Braiterman - February 20, 2012
NExt game Lin wins with a buzzbeater......
And someone says Lin NIPS the Clippers, will that person be fired? Seems very preemptive. We live in a very litigious society so I guess they are trying to avoid any lawsuits or protests but it just seems overly PC.
clarkkentpunch - February 20, 2012
It's not a clever headline. He intentionally used it in my book. It's not even PC.
The stigma surrounding Jeremy Lin very much involves him being a non-center playing Asian. If you look at the Knicks’ game in Toronto when Lin hit the winning shot the crowd erupted because 80% of the Toronto arena was Asian.
To be racially ignorant like the headline writer was is just inexcusable.
SSreporters - February 20, 2012
Yes. Context is everything.
And the context surrounding Lin was the focus on his ethnicity. To have that context built up for weeks, and then have someone use that phrase with regards to Lin, was really stupid. I’m not sure if he meant anything bad by it; maybe he was trying to be funny. Regardless, he should have known better. Heck, I never watch Basketball, but even I had heard of Lin and the headline was obviously a stupid choice of words to me.
pud333 - February 20, 2012
BUT, freedom of speech, brah!!
POLICE STATE!! COMMUNISTS!! MARXISTS!!! MAOISTS!!! THEY ARE TAKING OVER!!
Obviously, no?
Unabomberman - February 20, 2012
I am surprised we haven't gotten one of those comments here yet.
pud333 - February 20, 2012
Just you wait.
I like the part when the Hammer starts flying.
Unabomberman - February 20, 2012
...what is this that I'm looking at, here?
SanFranpsycho - February 20, 2012
Rodent eating popcorn.
Or this is actually what Unabomberman looks like. Could go either way.
pud333 - February 20, 2012
this reminds me of that lady on the Golf Channel a few years ago that said that some PGA players were likely to be upset at Tiger Woods due to his huge lead and might want to ‘take him out back and lynch him’.
it’s two thousand fucking twelve. you should understand that there are certain words that re-open wounds and are not appropriate when there is the possibility of a racial subtext. the guy doing the interview seems like there’s no malice, but he should have known better. the guy who made the headline was justifiably sacked for being a galactic asshole.
Victor Rodriguez - February 20, 2012
I don't think he is ignorant
He thought using the word would be funny to many, insulting to a minority, and he would get away with it. He was ignorant of the state of play in his own company, I say.
Arca MMA - February 21, 2012 via mobile
Max Bretos hosts MMA Live now? Man I hated his voice on soccer. I only ever knew of him on pro wrestling.
SSreporters - February 20, 2012
Wow, like he didn’t intentionally mean to write that. Or if he didn’t how the hell do you not see the context of that?
Jeremy Couturier - February 20, 2012
Either way, he comes off as stupid.
pud333 - February 20, 2012
and yes i know that slur is for japanese not chinese
clarkkentpunch - February 20, 2012
Actually it started at the Korean War
and meant CHInese North Koreans.
Henrique - February 20, 2012
He was referring to ‘Nip’, which is slang for Nipponese / Japanese.
Steve4192 - February 20, 2012
I’d hardly consider refraining from calling a Chinese dude a chink or a Mexican dude a wetback “tiptoeing through a minefield”.
Ikuhisa Quinoa - February 20, 2012
There's political correctness
And then there is just being dumb.
discoandherpes - February 20, 2012
I guess he means in the context of actually having an actual discussion, of this "race" thing.
Epiphets are just a dumb adjective people use to not have to come up with arguments.
Unabomberman - February 20, 2012
He didnt call him a chink fyi
schm1583 - February 20, 2012
was there mma content here I didn't catch?
Boxing’s…kinda close? I have no problem with BE covering boxing, but here it’s not even above the jump.
some schmuck in texas - February 20, 2012
pud333 - February 20, 2012
still seems pretty tenuous
but fuckit, KNW made this place, he can do what he wants with it.
some schmuck in texas - February 20, 2012
in before slow news day
Cory Braiterman - February 20, 2012
Don't temp the gods ...
KJ Gould - February 20, 2012
Blame Kid Nate
Mjub - February 20, 2012
Reminds me of The Hammer quote,
“Yeah Floyd, when is the black man gonna get a fair shake in basketball?”
KIARIOracer - February 20, 2012
Kobe never got the cover of Time...just saying
AfroSamurai - February 20, 2012
From this cover of Time, one of 2 things is true.
1) Time is guilty of racism like ESPN.
2) Maybe Kim Jong Il really did hit 37 hole in ones in a row and KO Mike Tyson in an underground boxing match!!
GeeDub - February 21, 2012
Of all people to make racist remarks...
If you told me some WASP evangelist from the deep south made these remarks, it wouldn’t surprise me.
Mayweather and King? Wouldn’t you think black americans would be the last people to be racist?
Kid Kimura - February 20, 2012
Nope.
I’ve never understood the idea that racism is trademarked by white people. Or even worse, the concept of “reverse racism.” You know what “reverse racism” would be? NOT RACISM.
All assholes are created equal. Uh… metaphorically I mean.
SanFranpsycho - February 20, 2012
Being stupid is the common denominator.
warren305 - February 20, 2012
I had this idiot Prof make the class write if reverse racism existed or if white ppl were the only racist ppl…smh
schm1583 - February 20, 2012
You dont think maybe because
historically white people have been oppressive towards other Races…
Blacks…Native Americans, early America is where they got the Racist Jacket from….Ring a bell San Fran?
AfroSamurai - February 20, 2012
Our country is built and founded on racism and minority labor
So yeah pretty much.
SSreporters - February 20, 2012
Tons of people oppress tons tons of other people based on the idea of genetics or race.
Are you suggesting that white people do it the most? Or that they’re better at it?
SanFranpsycho - February 20, 2012
Historically they've absolutely done it the most
It’s absolute fact. And they’ve done it on every inhabitable continent.
SSreporters - February 20, 2012
Not to get too deep
but are we denying history now?
TheFilt - February 20, 2012
the history of African tribes that never even knew what america was doing the same shit?
Phildo - February 20, 2012
What?
Go on?
Explain to me the storied history of precolonial Africa and the genocide and oppression they spread across the globe.
TheFilt - February 20, 2012
people have been killing other people for being different for forever please don’t act like any one group has a lockdown on it.
Phildo - February 20, 2012
One group got it down much better
and mobilized it.
Denying the horrors, many of which they world had never seen before, of colonial Europe is asinine.
I don’t think you understand precolonial Africa or the oppression of the colonial era nearly as well as you think you do.
From the Atlantic slave trade to the massacre of 40 million Indians, Colonial Europe spread a new level of malevolence and bigotry across the globe.
Name same precolonial African cultures who took part in any of these activities to the degree of colonial Europe.
TheFilt - February 20, 2012
i never said they were more, i was saying they didn’t have a monopoly on the issue, which is what someone said they did.
Phildo - February 20, 2012
I don't agree with that either
But I also didn’t read that, in fairness.
TheFilt - February 20, 2012
I think he is doing the opposite of denying history
schm1583 - February 20, 2012
Making it up?
TheFilt - February 20, 2012
So you are saying the only people to oppress others, and be racist are white, thus making the implication that whites as a race more bigoted than other races, ok.
schm1583 - February 20, 2012
No
That’s how you chose to read it.
TheFilt - February 20, 2012
Kind of like how ppl chose to read “chink in his armor” as a racial thing?
schm1583 - February 20, 2012
Not at all
Now stop putting words in my mouth.
TheFilt - February 20, 2012
Sorry, I got a little worked up (and am a little drunk) when it seemed like you and SS were saying whites are the sole root of racism. Which I know see is not what you were getting at. Sincerely my apologies
schm1583 - February 20, 2012
Its cool
I never meant to imply that or offend anyone. I apologize if it sounded that way.
I love all people. My mom’s white, my dad’s black, my wife’s Japanese and I live in a neighborhood full of whites, blacks, Somalians, Mexicans and everything in between. Hate em all the same. :)
TheFilt - February 21, 2012
Wait, you are married? arent you the one famous for getting with any chick with a pulse or something like that?
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
Correction
Any attractive chick with a pulse, that isn’t bat shit crazy.
We have an open marriage kind of thing. I usually just stick to having one girlfriend on the side though.
TheFilt - February 21, 2012
Thats cool
I wouldn’t be able to do it. Too jealous I guess
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
Don’t ask, don’t tell.
That’s how we do it.
TheFilt - February 21, 2012
I still could not do it… I got Catholic guilt as you may have figured out from our religion talk the other day.
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
I really have no idea how me objecting to the idea that white people are “better racists” got turned around into me making up history.
This train ran off the tracks, somewhere.
SanFranpsycho - February 20, 2012
I didn't say that
I asked what the opposite of denying history is.
But on the subject, yes, colonial Europeans took greed, genocide and bigotry to a new level, world-wide. Its not even disputable.
I could talk all day about the differences between the African and Atlantic slave trades, the treatment of indigenous people around the world, the rape and conquest of India, Africa, North and South America, much of Asia and many other atrocities.
Within 2 years of Columbus’ arrival, he had killed 250,000 Arawak Indians. He did this because they couldn’t find enough gold. Many times he would cut off their hands and watch them bleed to death.
These things were not universal amongst all people and many cultures saw these things as vile and perverted(including some European cultures).
Am I saying that only colonial Europeans were greedy, bigoted and down-right inhumane? Of course, not.
Am I saying they did it the best, on the biggest scale? Unequivocally.
TheFilt - February 21, 2012
So you are say whites are BETTER than other races… at being racist? haha… an interesting movie about how whites got to promise and thus became the best racists, is: Germs, steel and guns (may have got the order wrong)
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
i always hear about this book
but haven’t read it.
Damn near the entire thing has been quoted on BE, though. :)
TheFilt - February 21, 2012
Yeah I have seen it mentioned on here before. I saw the movie for school, basically about how europe just happened to be the perfect geographical region for a civilization to thrive.
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
Yep
More so commerce than civilization though.
TheFilt - February 21, 2012
Its been awhile but both i think. The fact that cows and shit were in europe helped to grow crops, which helped everything.
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
The middle east had a perfect scenario
Camels, sheep, horse, huge rivers, access to Asia, Africa and Europe.
What they didn’t have was the idea of incorporation(forming big companies to build ships). And guns.
TheFilt - February 21, 2012
wasnt the ME too dry in most places outside of the huge rivers?
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
Depends
The short answer is no, but its complicated.
The climate of the Middle East and North Africa has changed a lot over the last several thousand years, but civilization has always been anchored by rivers and coastline.
TheFilt - February 21, 2012
you dont even need to read the book
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
I loves my history and anthroplogy
Took a lot of classes and read too many of my wife’s text books.
TheFilt - February 21, 2012
Well, while I am talking to you, would the phrase “he got the monkey off his back” be offensive to you in the same way as this story if used about Lebron if he finally won a championship?
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
Not to me
Some people might think so though.
TheFilt - February 21, 2012
Yeah, probably a good thing for ESPN to stay away from though
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
And who said none of that happened?
I feel like you may be arguing against something you thought I said. I’m not sure what happened here.
I said that I dislike this idea that a black person should “know better” than be racist. Anyone with his head up his ass is equally qualified for racism.
Afro I think took this the wrong way, and asked if any of the racist stuff he mentioned “rang a bell.” Which is, uh, classy, I guess.
I asked what his argument was. That white people “do” more racist stuff? Or that they’re better at it? Note, nowhere in here, do I mention what white people HAVE done, or anything historical.
To my surprise, I get a response on how I’m denying history. You’re using history to prove that white people have done lots of racist things, and therefore we should expect them to be racist, while black people should know better because we’re less racist, according to history?
And if that’s not your point, why are you responding to me, brebruh? I think you’re accidentally arguing the wrong point/person here.
SanFranpsycho - February 21, 2012
Wouldn’t it make more sense to say that the ancestors of present white folk have done atrocious things and set up an environment of privilege to their descendants that further complicates things but in a smaller scale in present time?
Unabomberman - February 21, 2012
another questions is: why do I feel guilty for these atrocious things white ppl before me did?
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
I dunno.
You should keep it in consideration when dealing with minorities, but you shouldn’t feel guilty yourself. If anything, you should be angry b/c those ancestors of yours handicapped you, not as bad as they handicapped everyone else, but they still did you wrong.
Unabomberman - February 21, 2012
Yeah, its a weird thing. Especially since I come from Irish immigrants who were treated pretty badly as well.
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
It's like that everywhere.
The Aztecs didn’t lose to the conquistadors b/c they were worse in a tussle. They lost b/c the conquistadors made allies with the folk that the Aztecs oppressed for hundreds of years.
And, I mean, why wouldn’t the Aztecs oppress them? They were the chosen people, dude. Their whole origin myth attests to it.
Unabomberman - February 21, 2012
Sure. I totally agree w/ that.
My thing is I hate the argument that “Black people can’t be racist.” It defeats the point of any enlightened discussion. “Racism” isn’t a card to play against white people. It’s a societal problem that affects anybody.
I don’t care what color you are. All racists eat equal-sized dicks.
SanFranpsycho - February 21, 2012
Look at our case.
We don’t have the U.S notion of “racism” here in Mexico. It is nonexistent. But we are plenty prejudiced, too, about as much as you guys are, easy.
It’s just that the notion of “racism” as it is used in western culture, is outdated bullshit to refer to cultural and societal prejudices.
Unabomberman - February 21, 2012
I was responding to this part.
My answer was, historically, yes.
TheFilt - February 21, 2012
I don't think it is altogether correct to phrase it so sparsely.
Not being PC, but I’d rather see it as it being explained that there is a longstanding, storied system of discrimination put together by old-ass white folk whose infrastructure makes it so that it is self sustaining by the newer generations of white folk who have been conditioned to see it as an affront when their privileges suddenly come under scrutiny.
Sounds fucking awful and obfuscated, but it makes some more sense, I feel.
Unabomberman - February 21, 2012
That makes it sound like there is some big white conspiracy… sorry but there isnt
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
You are correct.
And that’s the sad part. The system just runs on its own.
Unabomberman - February 21, 2012
ughh I wish it didnt it. but it kinda does. I think in the US we are “fairly” equal but it is easier for a white guy
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
Yep.
It’s a cultural clusterfuck. Our inheritance from the hardcore bigots of the past. And now it our turn to uncluster [sic] this fuck so that it makes sense in modern society…yay.
Unabomberman - February 21, 2012
To me the funny part is the fact that in the US the civil rights movement happened in the 60s so even if everything became equal then the upward mobility is not that great so in 2012 we are still seeing the effects of racism from 1960
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
Class seems to be a bigger deal than race now,
but because of the history of racism, sexism etc. equality unfortunately doesn’t create equity.
sun yue - February 21, 2012
Your phrasing is good
But I don’t got that kinda time to think before I type. :)
TheFilt - February 21, 2012
If American whites had any particular vice it would be greed
The love of money is what drove early European whites to kill everything that could possibly lay claim to the land they “discovered”, and enslave everything that could make them money as if they were tools or animals. Whites are not better at rascism, just more motivated and organized.
And most people are rascist on a innate level, even against people of similar colors and backgrounds. Lets not get into a white bashing fest. I mean, Chinese people HATE Japanese people and to many non-asians they would all look the same more or less.
jawz10 - February 20, 2012
All humans are inherently racist.
Conversations about racism (at least in America) focus around the racism of white people towards other groups because white people have the numbers, power, and privilege to turn these inherent prejudices into massively destructive engines of harm.
“Engines of Harm” would make a killer band name, btw.
SonOfSLJ - February 20, 2012
I dunno about that.
Prejudiced, sure, but I’d say inherently racist is a stretch.
SanFranpsycho - February 20, 2012
No, it isn't a stretch.
Prejudice and racism don’t exist on a continuum – the latter is a variety of the former, and psychological studies show that people – even three-month olds – tend to feel more at ease around the company of their own race. This doesn’t make it right, but it’s pretty well-established as fact.
SonOfSLJ - February 20, 2012
Well, racisim is a social construct.
I don’t think a baby being more comfortable around someone that it looks like means the baby is racist. It means it has a prejudice towards people that it resembles. Those are two incredibly different things in my opinion.
SanFranpsycho - February 20, 2012
Racism isn't merely a social construct.
That idea assumes that humans are blank slates upon which racist inclinations are programmed by the surrounding culture, but the research directly contradicts that idea. Furthermore, racism is the variety of prejudice that centers around race. If you’re saying that a baby isn’t racist but rather “has a prejudice towards people that it resembles” then you’re making a distinction without a difference.
To where we’ll find some common ground, some manifestations of racism are certainly more pernicious than others, definitely when it pertains to social constructs. We talk about racism in regards to social constructs because that’s where the conversation tends to be most relevant, but that doesn’t mean that the two are the same.
SonOfSLJ - February 20, 2012
What are these psychological studies,
because Eugenics and Phrenology used to be accepted fields of research too.
sun yue - February 20, 2012
Here's one:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2566511/
This is not an uncontroversial view. If it makes you uncomfortable, that’s another thing entirely.
SonOfSLJ - February 20, 2012
This is not a controversial view, rather. Ergh.
SonOfSLJ - February 20, 2012
I need to add...
…all this isn’t to say that racism is something that can’t be overcome, or something that we are helpless to combat. It’s only to say that racism is something innate in all of us, and something we all need to be on the watch for within ourselves.
SonOfSLJ - February 20, 2012
The phrase race is a social construct
refers to the idea that races don’t have any inherent meaning. “Black” does not inherently produce “criminal” and “Asian” does not inherently produce “beta male.” These meanings have just been constructed and ascribed to them. Racism is the belief in these constructions. The study doesn’t prove that this is inherent. It just shows that infants prefer what’s familiar to them.
sun yue - February 20, 2012
Two things:
1.) SanFranpsycho specifically said that racism was a social construct, not race. That’s the discussion we’ve been having. Whether or not race itself is a social construct is another discussion, and one I’m not really interested in having because that entire debate is a red herring regarding discussions of racism, IMHO.
2.) I’m not arguing that people make inherent associations between other races and specific negative attributes. That’s just bizarre. I’m arguing that people are inherently prone to associate races other than their own with negative attributes, and the aforementioned study confirms this.
3.) “[The study] just shows that infants prefer what’s familiar to them.” Exactly. And this inherent tendency to prefer familiar races may go by another name…
SonOfSLJ - February 20, 2012
I wrote "two things" but it became three. Ergh again.
SonOfSLJ - February 20, 2012
It’s not a red herring. The whole discussion is about race as a social construct because racism is just a product of buying into the inherent, essentialist meanings constructed about race. Race theory tends to revolve around Omi and Winant’s theory of racial formation; you can’t separate racism from race as a construction.
From what I read of the study, it says that infants prefer faces they’ve seen regularly. I don’t know if the study goes over this, but does it take adopted newborns raised by parents with different races from the newborn into account? Would a white a baby raised by black parents tend to prefer black faces or white faces? If so, then isn’t that indicative of the newborn’s social experiences rather than racism inherent to the child? None of these are rhetorical, by the way, I’m curious if the study goes over this, but don’t have the time to extensively read through.
sun yue - February 20, 2012
Good call.
First off, I wasn’t familiar with racial formation theory, but the little I’ve read on Teh Interwebs looks really interesting. Thanks for making me aware of it – I may have to start thinking hard and recalculating my position. :)
Secondly, the study I cited only dealt with Caucasian babies being exposed to faces of other races, and the authors acknowledged that further research was needed to see if these early “other-race” effects applied to other races. The study also says that the conclusion drawn from the experimental data is that three-month-old babies are attracted to faces similar to those they’ve had prior exposure to, but they didn’t control for caregivers who are of a different race. Sounds like a good idea for a follow-up study, but I imagine it’d be difficult to find enough babies for a substantive experimental group that would meet those conditions due to their being so young.
SonOfSLJ - February 20, 2012
As per the study you cited: "Discussion Overall - the results obtained in Experiment 1 suggest that at birth, newborns display no spontaneous preferences for faces from own- or other-ethnic groups."
If racism was inherrant, there wouldn’t be a three month delay for babies to have to LEARN to become accustomed to the faces of their parents and families, which would also presumably be of the same race in most cases. i’m not shocked that babies are more attyracted to faces that resemble faces that they see regularly, including themselves. I hardly think that constitutes hardwired racism.
I have yet to see any research that contradicts the idea that racism, unlike fight or flight or handedness, is not a learned behavior.
As to a “distinction without difference” I thought that was clear, but I often make leaps in logic that other people don’t follow. Not all people from all races look alike. The idea that racism (which, full disclosure, I also don’t think exists) is “an aversion to people who look different from you” is an inaccurate one. I’d speculate (pure speculation, mind you) that a baby raised around very light skinned white people would not react especially unfavorably towards say, a Kenyan w/ Albinism. A racist, however, would be anti-Kenyan, no matter how light their skin.
Prejudice due to asthetics does not equal racism. Prejudice can be good. Racism can’t.
BTW, I appreciate the civility of this conversation.
SanFranpsycho - February 20, 2012
Excuse me!
I have yet to see any research that contradicts the idea that racism, unlike fight or flight or handedness, is a learned behavior.
SanFranpsycho - February 20, 2012
Some points I'm not going to number because I'm afraid I'll get myself in trouble again.
1.) I also appreciate the civility of this conversation. BE rocks.
2.) The three-month delay does not mean that the tendency isn’t inherent – it just means that it takes that long to acquire a baseline for preference. Using your own examples, this would be like arguing that fight-or-flight isn’t inherent because babies can’t run or throw hands, or that handedness isn’t inherent because babies can’t write or shoot pool (I agree with you that both are innate qualities, btw).
3.) If we’re going to assume that race is primarily concerned with the aesthetic differences in people that happen to be weighted around certain points, then racism does stem from an innate aesthetic prejudice. Why do all cultures carry racist baggage and harbor some amount of hostility towards outsiders? It’s for the same reason that babies prefer adults that look like them or why people-who-aren’t-Asian are ready to accept the myth that an Asian male is a beta-male: because we are anxious around the unfamiliar. This anxiety precedes any cultural programming and determines much of it.
SonOfSLJ - February 20, 2012
RESPONSES!
1) Is “LETS MUTHERFUKERS!” innappropriate for this thread?
2) I would agree with you if the study said it was because newborns can’t tell the difference between races. However, it says that they CAN tell the difference between races, they just don’t favor one group over the other. I think that’s the definition of not being racist. However, I suppose that I guess that’s kind of my point: Not only do these results mean to ME that humans aren’t born racist, but the results to you mean that they are. The data of this study hasn’t clarified anything between us- hence why I say the sentence “All humans are inherently racist” and that the sentiment of that sentence is “pretty well-established as fact” are fallacious statements. In fact, I’d suggest that that’s why the people advertised no such result.
3) I don’t assume that racism is primarily concerned w/ aesthetics.
SanFranpsycho - February 20, 2012
LETS MUTHERFUKERS!!!!!!
Andy Anderson - February 20, 2012
Woah
Very high quality discussion. Kudos to u guys
Did u ever watch ‘the jerk’? With steve martin
Arca MMA - February 21, 2012 via mobile
I fucking love that movie.
SanFranpsycho - February 21, 2012
Racism is a form of prejudice, so ...
I’m sure some of it might stem from our screwed up caveman tribal territory DNA instincts.
KJ Gould - February 20, 2012
To be fair, I wouldn’t consider Mayweather or King to be any fair representation of your average dude. Those guys live in their own little WTF bubbles.
pud333 - February 20, 2012
Holy shit at the preposterous amount of stupidity it takes to write that headline without realizing it is going to cost you your job. I’m glad the dude got sacked.
Steve4192 - February 20, 2012
It was intentional
It’s a game a lot of editors play. He just went full special needs.
menckenstein - February 20, 2012
And now he needs a job.
Unabomberman - February 20, 2012
Yeah
If you catch most of the eye-roll worthy wordplay these guys pass off as journalism, you’d know full well that this was done with the strongest of intentions.
Charles Awad - February 20, 2012
The online headline was incredibly stupid and insensitive
The on-air analysis is a casualty of the blow back from the online headline.
“Finding no chink in armor” is a legitimate turn of phrase that’s existed for centuries, since a ‘chink’ is a fissure weakness in chain mail or plate armor. It means no apparent weaknesses have been found in something that is outwardly strong.
KJ Gould - February 20, 2012
exactly.
You can tell this is true because Bretos went half a week with no blowback on his comments. After the headline, people went back and looked at all the linsanity and started calling for heads.
Phildo - February 20, 2012
People that say shit like Don King and Floyd Mayweather are fucking idiots
They don’t represent me, or how I think. I’m Black too!!!!!
Is it true that the rarity of an Asian American in the NBA, has to do with his notoriety, yes. Should you be fighting that battle and saying that negatively, NO!!! You sound like a fucking bigot. The fact that these people say the “Barack Obama should be celebrated as the first black president, yet Lin should be subjugated, for being a rare Asian NBA player” are hypocrites.
The fact of the matter is, racism comes from all types of people. Typically they do have one common denominator, they are fucking stupid, hypocritical, uneducated, defensive minded peons. Rant over.
warren305 - February 20, 2012
Lin isn’t solely getting notoriety due to his ethnicity. It is also because he came from no where as a D League player who was about to be cut, because he is a Harvard grad, and he plays in NY
schm1583 - February 20, 2012
Exactly
warren305 - February 20, 2012
I liked the wetback part.
Crazy, ass-backwards Americans come up with all kinds of funny names to disparage minorities. Then they find out that said minorities are actually American too, and then they get offended because nobody told them, or because someone got offended.
Unabomberman - February 20, 2012
but but but
We’re all wetbacks too!
f’ing don king. If there’s ever a person I’d like to just go away
Cory Braiterman - February 20, 2012
I don't even think he knows what wetback is supposed to mean.
Unabomberman - February 20, 2012
considering it's a derogatory word mostly associated with cubans
as they had to swim to get here, etc.
Yes, I know about mexicans crossing the rio grande
Cory Braiterman - February 20, 2012
In general it is used to disparage them filthy immigrants who had to do something related to swimming, and stuff.
Unabomberman - February 20, 2012
Well we get wetback beaner spick brown boy hiss and Panic
I feel so loved by Don King Promotions.
dandeman - February 20, 2012
I could be a wetneck
Since the sun doesn’t shine enough for me to be a redneck. Plus “cold-clammy-neck” doesn’t have the same ring to it.
KJ Gould - February 20, 2012
Wetneck sounds like a disease.
I wouldn’t want to catch it, bro.
Unabomberman - February 20, 2012
Hmm, good point
KJ Gould - February 20, 2012
Hey, brah...
I wrote ‘wet neck’ on google and looked for images and found this:
Wet necks ain’t that bad, huh…
Unabomberman - February 20, 2012
Wow, you cropped that nipple as close as humanly possible.
Ikuhisa Quinoa - February 20, 2012
I didn't crop anything. That's just how the picture was taken, I assume.
Unabomberman - February 20, 2012
Areola Celeste?
menckenstein - February 20, 2012
No
The girl in this photo is somewhat attractive
KJ Gould - February 20, 2012
Pretty dang attractive, I say.
Unabomberman - February 20, 2012
I say that in my head every time I hear her name.
I just can’t break the habit.
NickRingp4pGOAT - February 21, 2012
I think the headline was dumb as hell, but the guy saying it was a bit unlucky I think. Most TV presenters talk in cliches and that is a pretty common one, it isn’t like he worded it differently to make it stand out, it was in the middle of a sentence and I don’t think he meant it to be a smartass.
StevenGiles - February 20, 2012
I do like how everyone here automatically gets it
while commenters at other (nameless) websites open up with “MAN THIS IS SOME PC BULLSHIT, THIS IS COMPLETELY OK WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY”.
Cory Braiterman - February 20, 2012
That's just scary...
Unabomberman - February 20, 2012
more sad, really
Cory Braiterman - February 20, 2012
Scary sad... and sadly scary.
pud333 - February 20, 2012
Sadly scary and scary scary.
Unabomberman - February 20, 2012
Strong Sad, for sure
Charles Awad - February 20, 2012
Dude, what the f--
Unabomberman - February 20, 2012
you better get in the know dude
jthin - February 20, 2012
A wizard brought one of Palmer's boobs to life?!
menckenstein - February 20, 2012
Ikuhisa Quinoa - February 20, 2012
Holy crap Homestar Runner ref.
I love BE more and more by the day.
NickRingp4pGOAT - February 21, 2012
Ooops and I meant to say, great jeeeeoooooorrrrrb.
NickRingp4pGOAT - February 21, 2012
That guy getting suspended was lame
It didn’t seem that he was using the slur. He just seemed to be using a regular phrase.
HaterSlayer - February 20, 2012
That is just blowback from the original headline.
pud333 - February 20, 2012
not trying to be a dick here
is the mayweather comment really “racist?” is it not demonstrably true that lin is getting more “hype” because of his race?
having said that, if he was a black dude who went to harvard and played in the d-league and suddenly rose to prominence in fucking new york, of all places, yes, he would be getting tons of hype.
not sure it matters. mayweather is a dick. having said that, his lin-baiting is way less racist than his pacquaio-baiting (or shaq’s yao ming impersonation)
i would characterize the “chink in the armor” thing as racist/offensive, the mayweather remark as insensitive, and the don king thing as insane.
Clifford J - February 20, 2012
His comment wasn't really racist
It was more ignorant. Jeremy Lin is playing out of his goddamn mind right now. If a black guy would have done this then it would be a big deal. What has built up the hype train was a combination of things:
1. Knicks are winning – the Knicks were sub .500 when he got the start and they’re a couple games up now
2. It’s happening in NY – If this was going on in Milwaukee then it would be nowhere near what it is now. Him doing this in the biggest media market in the country is the driving force
3. His play – Again, Lin has been playing at a super star level the last 8 games
4. His race – It’s an interesting novelty since Asians aren’t “supposed” to be able to play basketball
Floyd’s comments were ignorant since he was ignoring the other factors which were more important to the story. On top of that the only player you can argue that is playing better than him right now is LeBron. So it’s not like what he’s doing is normal for any NBA player regardless of race
HaterSlayer - February 20, 2012
Let's not get too carried away
Lin is playing out of his mind, but Kobe, LeBron, Durant, Love, and Westbrook are basically putting up equal numbers without turning it over 6-9 times a game—-not even Westbrook’s TO happy self. That he’s mention-able in the same breath as the best players in the game is ridiculous enough.
/see sig
joker24 - February 20, 2012
Mayweather definitely has a point
Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Durant and Rose been putting up numbers like that for years.
Chin Check - February 20, 2012
Basketball is still waiting for Luke Walton to put up 30-10-8 statlines any day.
SSreporters - February 20, 2012
Minus the whole part where those guys were in the D-League earlier this year after having been cut two times and came from a university that hadn't had any NBA player in forever, let alone someone putting up superstar numbers
joker24 - February 20, 2012
This ^
schm1583 - February 20, 2012
Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Durant and Rose has never put up 200 points in their first 8 starts. Not saying Lin will be in their league, but he’s put up stats for a newcomer.
Black, white, or Asian, putting up 200 points in first 8 starts is Jordan-esque. So, in that aspect, Mayweather is wrong.
cyph - February 20, 2012
True
Jeremy Lin had some sort of record for the amount of points during the first four or five starts of his career. No one else has ever done that.
discoandherpes - February 20, 2012
true, but the uniqueness of Lin
is the fact that he wasn’t a “Phenom” or a #1 pick, or an All-Star, he was essentially a D-Leaguer who was on his way back to the minor leagues.
Also, those guys have been putting up those numbers for years, the list of people who have put up similar numbers in their first handful of games can be counted on less than a hand.
Sean in Vancouver - February 20, 2012
Right
This actually highlights the problem I have with ESPN. This actually IS a story that they should beat to death because it is so amazing, but they’ve done it with so many other guys that it’s just the boy who cried wolf.
joker24 - February 20, 2012
Actually, he was a phenom by most basketball standards
He just didn’t get any credit because asians are looked down upon as be soft or nerdy or whatever.
Kid Kimura - February 20, 2012
I meant Phenom is the Lebron sense
as in we’ve been forcefed their awesomeness sense their teens.
Sean in Vancouver - February 20, 2012
Uhhhh no, he wasn't
He put up 16-4 in the Ivy league last year as a senior. Someone named Zack Rosen is putting up 18-5 in the Ivy League.
joker24 - February 20, 2012
EXACTLY
Its the elephant in the room. Mayweather spoke up and ended up looking like an idiot, but his point has a hidden truth in it. That being that Asian men are the most looked down upon, emasculated, demographic in the world. THATS what makes this such a big story, because most people simply don’t view Asian men as being masculine enough to compete athletically versus black and white men. Its bullshit, and one of the things I hate about American sports.
We create something, dominate it, and then build stereotypes off of the self-fulfilling prophecies we’ve created. Its like people thinking American football players are the fastest biggest men in the US, thus the fastest and most atheltic athletes in the world… completely ignoring the fact that the fastest and most athletic men in other countries play soccer or rugby. I have a hard time believing Ronaldo (nazario de lima…) or Jonah Lomu wouldn’t have been all-star football players had they chose to be.
/rant
jawz10 - February 20, 2012
As for the 2nd part: it's not entirely unjustified, our dominance of the Olympics being an example
The USA’s list of Summer Olympic medal count finishes since 1912. 2008 (1st), 2004 (1st), 2000 (1st), 1996 (1st), 1992 (1st unless you count the Unified Team), 1988 (3rd), 1984 (1st), 1980 (3rd) 1976 (3rd), 1972 (2nd), 1968 (1st), 1964 (1st), 1960 (2nd), 1956 (2nd), 1952 (1st), 1948 (1st), 1936 (2nd), 1932 (1st), 1928 (1st), 1924 (1st), 1920 (1st), 1912 (1st).
That’s first in 15 out of 22 and no worse than 3rd—-and no one here really cares about the Olympic sports the way say the Soviet Union would pimp Olympic athletes. Of course being the 3rd most populous country in the world helps that, but that’s dominance no matter how you slice it.
I don’t know shit about rugby but a glance of Lomu’s highlights seems to actually prove the point on football at least. He definitely looks like a freak who could have been a American Football player no doubt, but he looks like he has 30-40 pounds on everyone else on the field. He’s an average sized DE in the NFL.
A guy like Mario Williams has 35 pounds on him according to this of Lomu being listed at 262. Jevon Kearse (4.58 40 combine approved), DeMarcus Ware (4.56), Vernon Davis (4.38!), Jason Pierre Paul (4.67), Terrell Suggs (4.65), Julius Pepper (4.68), Aldon Smith (4.67) etc are all >=250 and legit fast. I have no idea how the 40-times convert to Lomu’s reported 10.8 100m—-though everyone gets reported at a 4.4 till they run at the combine when they do it electronically—-but I think we get the point.
Hell we’re semi-competitive in soccer and that’s where like our 7th tier of athletes end up. LeBron jumping up for a cross would be ridiculous. Then again LeBron playing pretty much any sport would be ridiculous.
Basically what I’m trying to say is USA USA USA USA /sarcasm.
joker24 - February 20, 2012
Only Americans use total medals for medal count, everywhere else in the world they use GOLD medals, thus, China finished #1 in 2008.
Kenya_MMA - February 21, 2012
Well then
That works just fine too.
joker24 - February 21, 2012
Ouch.
I’d never looked at the numbers before, but 2296 total medals compared to the next closest – The USSR – at 1010 is pretty significant, especially when it’s 929 gold to 395 from the next closest.
The numbers just crushed Kenya’s point.
Fistbeard - February 21, 2012
MURICA
Andy Anderson - February 21, 2012
Holy balls!
USA NUMBAH 1!!!!!!!!! SUCK IT EARTH!
RolloTomasi - February 21, 2012
The Knicks are 17-17
SSreporters - February 20, 2012
The Irony Cracks me Up....
Mr Don King why u been a black man (that lived through segregation) been racist towards Mexicans? I love how black people always talking about racism, and at the end of the way i find them to be way more racist than any other race…… Someone should tell him that even though Mr King believes he superior to Mexicans at the end of the day a skinhead can’t really tell them apart a from each other, and will be equally racist 2 both, and racism among minorities really makes their day. Also since when have we gotten so soft? The pussies of the world are running this country. I found nothing racist or wrong about “Chink int he Armor” is a very common expression use frequently. I think people finding something wrong in that makes u racist!!!! I once found myself in a moment were i used the wrongs words. I came out the supermarket, and when i first went inside the market it was daylight, and when we came out it was nigh time. I only spend like 30 minutes inside the market so i got out i told my gf " Wow sure got dark fast", and of course a black woman took offense to my statement.. I quickly let her know i was glad she actually though she was a important enough individual for me to even mention her in my personal conversations.People need to grown a backbone, and stop letting everything in life affect them. I don’t want to even start with religious people preaching to everyone to accept others, and be kind, and as soon they spot a gay person they turn to the devil it self lmao.
Alfxtream - February 20, 2012
Come again?
Ikuhisa Quinoa - February 20, 2012
He's doing a histrionic letters representation of War Machine.
I think…
Unabomberman - February 20, 2012
I randomly have a similar story
I’m a black guy was working at Pizza Hut at the time. I’d been there for about 4 months so I knew what to do, but I was still new-ish. I worked in a majority black area, but we’d have white people come through somewhat often. So I was walking into the drive-thru and there were some white people waiting. I was doing my own thing and looked down and noticed we had crackers. Customers had asked me for them before(for salads), but I never saw any so I’d always say we didn’t have any. I then go, “Hey, crackers!” I then realized how that seemed and looked up. I didn’t think they heard me though.
HaterSlayer - February 20, 2012
Here in Canada we have a photo store chain called Black’s Photography. I was with my friend when he got his photos developed. We picked them up from the store and were in the food court when he checked on them, and they screwed up his order. He just blurted out, “Man, I fucking hate Black’s!” just as a black family happened to be walking by. Disapproving looks were sent our way.
Ikuhisa Quinoa - February 20, 2012
Pretty funny though
TheFilt - February 21, 2012
I think because people don't go out and say "n*gger", "jap", "nip", "wop", etc. to people's faces
The assumption is that any other phrase is not overtly racist or racially insensitive. There’s an obvious blind spot in this country when it comes to addressing race and cultural issues because we’ve long since romanticized and ostracized anything to do with ending our discriminatory past, and like to sweep our dirty little secrets under the rug. As soon as anyone brings up the Germans being publicly lynched in the US during World War I in some states, Japanese internment camps, or racial segregation (both having ended only 60+ and 45 years ago respectively, not very long in the context of history) the common phrase today is “get over it”. Well….no. For some families that’s not an acceptable option.
Just because that form of racism is gone and we’ve scaled it down significantly, doesn’t mean that racial slurs and epithets didn’t just magically go away. Racism is not nearly as obvious as it wants in the 19th and 20th centuries. You can’t go to a black person as a white man and call him the n-word because it’s not socially acceptable anymore. But if you substitute that phrasing with something where you have to read between the lines you can get away with more. I could use political examples, but I won’t go there.
And yes, non-white people can be racist. Don King’s remarks are totally out of order and Chris Arreola’s response was absolutely justified. You cannot use the “PEOPLE ARE TOO PC” card every single time a seemingly offensive comment is made in the same way you cannot pull out the race card like Doug E. Doug’s character in Hangin’ With the Homeboys.
Race and racism is still a debate worth having and addressing, just not the way American society does it today.
SSreporters - February 20, 2012
Agreed
It’s just that race is one of the most difficult things to talk about and understand for several reasons. First, none of the terms are stable; their meanings change over years and decades and they change immediately depending on the speaker and the listener. Second and relatedly, race is always a simplification of much more complicated things: incredible historical complexity, cultural complexity and variety, etc.. Third, the eruption is as much about the racist person’s psychology as it is about the people or person they’re talking about.
Is it even possible to untangle these things, generally?
dribblebib - February 20, 2012
Personally, I doubt the headline was written to purposely be offensive
I think its a commonly used phrase in the sports world.
With that said, that it was used in this context, is….. extremely unfortunate. I don’t think he should’ve been fired, but he definitely needed to be reprimanded in some fashion.
Something that hasnt been mentioned much, is whether or not ESPN has a sort of “firewall” to keep stupid shit like this from apparing on their platforms. If they do, that person should be punished far more harshly than the guy who wrote it, and if they don’t, they need to rework their process.
Sean in Vancouver - February 20, 2012
honest question
Are you, yourself, not aware of how offensive that term is to Chinese people?
dribblebib - February 20, 2012
I am
maybe I’m off base, I just think that in this type of instance, intent should count for something, and I don’t personally see the intent, but again I could just be naive in that sense.
Sean in Vancouver - February 20, 2012
It’s just impossible for me to believe that a professional copy-writer could be unaware of the significance of the term, especially when it’s his job to make puns and work with associations, and one of the biggest parts of the Lin story is that he’s Chinese-American.
dribblebib - February 20, 2012
they do, it’s called an editor, he got fired.
Phildo - February 20, 2012
I don't have any problems with what Mayweather said because I think it's true.
The novelty of an Asian male, the racialized epitome of beta, doing all of these things in the context of pro sports is a big deal. A black person with the same story wouldn’t be drawing so many headlines.
Don King’s first set of comments are obviously very problematic and I don’t think I even need to get into why. But his second comment is very interesting. In context, he’s just being a damn fool trying to cover his ass, but taken as a stand-alone statement it’s surprisingly provocative, and kind of similar to the way people of color have appropriated the term queer.
sun yue - February 20, 2012
I read King's first comment as
him saying what the public perception of Mexican Americans.
Like saying “The president is black. No more porch monkey, shining shoes.”
I would take that to mean that black people are better than that and could do more if given the chance."
Even Aerola seemed to see it that way, as he was mad about King saying he’s not a ‘wetback’.
I could be wrong, he is an ignorant, old conniving fool.
TheFilt - February 20, 2012
I get what you're saying,
I just find it problematic because of clearly offensive language (saying “The president is a N****. No more porch monkey, shining shoes” would obviously be so much worse) and because it pushes this narrative that Mexican Americans have “made it,” they aren’t “picking fruit” anymore and have been assimilated into the United States, when there’s still a ton of racism, particularly towards Latinos such as the various Arizona bullshit.
sun yue - February 20, 2012
You're right
And knowing Don King, he probably would have said the N-word in that instance, too.
I agree there is still plenty of racism. I think King’s point was it doesn’t matter in America at the end of the day.
I’d say King, Lin himself is proof that’s true. Racism blows, but its not that important in the grand scheme, IMO.
TheFilt - February 20, 2012
I think in an increasingly progressive society race based issues are giving way to class,
but race is still important as something intertwined with class due to the the United States’ deeply entrenched foundation of racism and the way socioeconomic disparity is reproduced.
sun yue - February 20, 2012
Anyone putting up these type of numbers in New York coming out of nowhere would have the same amount of headlines
discoandherpes - February 20, 2012
New York has a lot to do with it, but his race plays a large factor as well.
Ben Wallace was an undrafted journeyman who came out of nowhere to put up all-star numbers, multiple DOYs and a championship, but he didn’t get shit.
sun yue - February 21, 2012
he did get quite a bit of hype, even though he never put up offensive numbers, and in the NBA it is all about offense
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
Big Ben was recognized with accolades but he didn't get anything close to the LINSANITY treatment
sun yue - February 21, 2012
Yeah, but he got all those accolades as a purely defensive player, whereas Lin is good at both ends of the court… and plays in NY
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
I'm not trying to discredit Lin or the great things he has accomplished in this short span,
I just think the idea of an Asian person excelling at American professional sports is so unheard of that he gets more coverage for being Asian.
sun yue - February 21, 2012
I really think if he was black it would be close to as much exposure. maybe not quite as much but close
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
A big part of Lin's exposure is his international appeal
The fact that there are reporters flying in from Asia to cover games in places like Toronto is crazy and really adds to the legend of LINSANITY.
sun yue - February 21, 2012
He was the classic case of the incredibly hard working over achiever, that came outta no where, too.
TheFilt - February 21, 2012
You got to admit that unlike Lin he had pretty much zero athletic ability. He was a role player, who happened to be on a good team, where role players become important.
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
Lin's on an offense that caters to his style
He wouldn’t be doing things i he was starting for Philly or Chicago.
sun yue - February 21, 2012
I am just saying in a league predicated on offense big ben who had zero offensive game got a lot of praise. And if he would not have been on a good team his defense would have got zero praise. honestly i dont not think they compare
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
asian here
i am from korea but went to college in america.
i think i got some kind of racist, jackie chan, ching chong, chop suey remark thrown at or near me at least once a week.
before you complain about being over-sensitive or america being some over litigious society, try wearing a different skin and see what america’s like
Pete Libertine - February 20, 2012
^
this
Cory Braiterman - February 20, 2012
I have no context for this as I am white, but if the guy used the phrase without thought of race (not saying he did) is it offensive to you? I would think it would be more offensive having everyone make that connection from an “innocent” phrase. Once again though I do not have the context.
schm1583 - February 20, 2012
Korean here.
People slip all the time and they should be forgiven for it. I regularly say “That’s gay” or “That’s retarded” around my gay friends or friends related to mentally handicapped people and immediately apologize for the slip.
It’s the fact that someone was stupid enough to physically write out this headline and submit it for publication but swears it was all an ‘accident.’
head-splitter - February 20, 2012
I never thought of asian guys as emasculated until i saw korean pop videos. You guys need to do something about them because they’re ruining it for all of you.
Kenya_MMA - February 21, 2012
we're making more mma athletes
to counterbalance guy singers with eyelash and mascara
Pete Libertine - February 21, 2012
Good debate about Lin comment
Did anyone catch this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zEPeeQCaqU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Inspectorxr5 - February 20, 2012 via mobile
Context
Saying Brock Lesnar looks like a gorrilla is fine. Saying Bob Sapp does, isn’t.
TheFilt - February 20, 2012
One day we will be able to describe anybody as looking like a gorilla regardless of race, that is the dream.
schm1583 - February 20, 2012
The ultimate realization of Dr. King’s dream.
TheFilt - February 20, 2012
A somewhat facetious question, when Peyton won the superbowl ppl talked about how he got “the monkey off his back” would that be an inappropriate phrase for lets say Lebron if he finally won the championship?
schm1583 - February 20, 2012
It's funny
I’m a Filipino, but I have the same eyes as Lin.
I used to refer to my eyes as “chinky”. I mean, in school, teachers made us write essays describing ourselves, etc…and I had always described my eyes like that, and not one teacher corrected me.
Then, last month, I read a news about a Papa John’s staff writing “Lady Chinky Eyes” on an Asian’s receipt. People on twitter kind of went nuts on it coz apparently it was racist.
Of course, upon Googling, I realized it was really supposed to be racist, and maybe I shouldnt call my eyes chinky anymore.
But what do I call my eyes now?
(TLDR?)
lmaginary Enemy - February 21, 2012
I dunno.
Slanted, probably, if you are comparing it to other kinds of eyes. But it sounds like you are trying too hard.
Or you could get technical and say you have epicanthic folds.
Unabomberman - February 21, 2012
those are some sexy eyes
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
A good friend of mine has eyes like that.
And he’s whitey-white. Some people are just born with it without even being of Asian descent.
Unabomberman - February 21, 2012
Oh it had to be a HE huh
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
So?
I meant the eyes, brah.
There’s nothing sexy about the guy ’cuz he is, you know, a guy.
Unabomberman - February 21, 2012
well besides the eyes
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
For some reason, this picture seems racist.
SanFranpsycho - February 21, 2012
No way!
It\s from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slanted_eyes
Unabomberman - February 21, 2012
well it is under the title “slanted eyes”
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
So that you can find it.
I don’t see anything mean by that.
Unabomberman - February 21, 2012
I actually dont either. I was just trying to give you shit about it.
schm1583 - February 21, 2012
How?
Arca MMA - February 21, 2012 via mobile
I dont know, but chinky sounds better than slanted or epicanthic folds..
lmaginary Enemy - February 21, 2012
This whole stuff just make everyone sure
that there is NO freedom of speech and that everyone who is opting for the importance or niceness of “freedom of speech” should really re-think :)
szanpan - February 21, 2012
Tired of this conversation.....
I’m otta here!!
Martin Arredondo - February 21, 2012
You must Login with your SB Nation account and be a member of Bloody Elbow to post a comment.