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Hunt vs Kongo: What is "World Class" Striking?

Hey chaps, just a little piece in the last few days before the big return to the Land of the Rising Sun! Once again, hope you don't mind clicking the link to HKL, it is a sister site and it's full of great content.

Cheers,

Jack


At UFC 144 two big men with KO power will meet in the heavyweight tilt between New Zealand's own, Mark Hunt, and the French Muay Thai practitioner, Cheick Kongo. While Mark Hunt has won the K-1 Grand Prix, the highest title in the world of competitive striking, his technical skill is often overshadowed by the fact that it was largely his physical attributes which won him this title. Hunt only succeeded in getting to the tournament final by injuring Ray Sefo's eye in a losing effort against Sefo in the semi finals, drawing his fellow Kiwi into a brawl because he could not deal with Sefo's superior technical kickboxing. Cheick Kongo, on the other hand, receives enormous credit for his string of kickboxing titles despite a complete absence of any verifiable kickboxing record. Kongo was once, though it is hard to believe now, in serious title contention in the UFC, after picking up 3 solid TKO wins through 2008 - 2009 before meeting Cain Velasquez and being taken down seemingly at will en route to a unanimous decision loss.

It is hoped that this fight will remain standing, in which case it is important to consider the strengths of each man in that domain. Hunt's abilities are well known - he has one of the most solid chins in the history of combat sports. In his career he has taken Cro Cop's high kick flush on the jaw, and the strongest blows from Ray Sefo, Mike Bernardo and Jerome Le Banner. Hunt has mixed it up with the best kickboxers in the world and come out with mixed results, but has been knocked out cold only once, in an MMA match against Melvin Manhoef, perhaps the biggest puncher, pound for pound in the world. Hunt also holds a thunderous punch - being able to knock out the iron jawed Jerome Le Banner, and break the orbital bone of Ray Sefo.

Once Hunt entered MMA, his career was perhaps the worst nurtured of any prospect, meeting Hidehiko Yoshida, Dan Bobish, Wanderlei Silva and Mirko Cro Cop in his first four fights. Somehow managing, with a complete absence of MMA experience, to get the better of the latter three. Clearly Hunt fights best against strikers, Cro Cop and Silva being the two highest profile strikers in MMA at the time. But his matches against Josh Barnett, Fedor Emelianenko, Alistair Overeem and Sean McCorkle exposed his woefully inadequate takedown and submission defense. Since his loss to McCorkle in his UFC debut, however, Hunt has experienced a career renaissance - developing the takedown defense to repeatedly stuff Brock Lesnar's training partner, Chris Tuchscherer en route to a walk-away uppercut knockout during a sprawl. Hunt continued his improvement, out grappling veteran Ben Rothwell, and brutalizing him on both the feet and the floor. While Rothwell is no master of the ground game or of takedowns, he is certainly a better wrestler than Kongo, and will make Kongo's night long if he is forced to revert to his wrestling strategy.

Hunt has, however, been prone to eating too many shots due to his great chin's allowing him to. In a way reminiscent of Chuck Liddell, who could not learn to keep his hands up even when working with Howard Davis Jr., Hunt may be too stuck in his ways to learn to keep his hands up. It was this fault which got him knocked out by Manhoef and stunned by Gegard Mousasi, who is not known as a hard puncher.

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15 recs  |  91 comments

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man oh man

You write so much quality stuff so often.

Truth.

Keep it up Jack; batting a thousand right now with everything I’ve seen.

someones getting KO'd

in the 1st rd

Did you just say Mousasi is not know for being a hard puncher?

He's not particularly. He's a great technician.

The Jardine fight certainly doesn’t help the case for him being a big puncher.

Gegard is a FIERCE puncher.

Did you see the Babalu fight? Absolutely bombed on Sobral. His slick combination punching style kind of precludes him from scoring huge standing knockouts, but Mousasi definitely has good punching power.

Mousasi has..

12 (T)KO’s due to punches, and 1 KO due to punches. While he does have power, I’ve rarely seen him display it in the same ‘taking the opponent’s head off their shoulders’ way that a fighter like Hector Lombard or Henderson does. I personally qualify it differently between a fighter that clearly has power but usually uses combinations and technique to set up flurries versus someone that can be almost out on their feet and then turn it around with one punch.

I’m also not remembering every Mousasi fight off the top of my head, so I could be glossing over some things. I wouldn’t say by any means that he’s pillowfisted, but I just don’t think of him as a one-and-done type striker without there being a fair bit to lead up to it. Please feel free to shoot me down if I’m wrong.

Mousasi's striking style is all about overwhelming accuracy, and force by numbers.

He definitely hits hard, though.

Come on Elliot this is MMA

If you don’t knock guys mouthpiece’s out with one hit KO’s, you obviously have no power and hit like a bitch

I must've forgot!

Silly me

While I agree with your sentiment..

I made the distinction between having power, and having one-hit KO power. If I’m way off with that, let me know. Can Mousasi actually drop someone in one? Sure, but I’m more inclined to think it’d be the result of something like bad positioning with his opponent turning into it like the spinning elbow from Faber into Brown’s right or walking into a shot that lands flush (Manhoef backpedaling and knocking out Hunt with a right). There IS a difference though between that and the guys that regularly are smashing out mouthpieces, part of it raw strength, the other part technique.

It’s early and I’m stupid so I can’t pull names to match all the examples I’m remembering, but there have been several where one fighter caught the other with an ugly, glancing blow to the temple or behind the ear and that ended it because of their gorilla strength. Though JDS has the technique to back it, he also floored Cain with a nasty punch that landed nowhere near his chin.

...

Rich Franklin doesn't have the best chin in this regard.

Yeah, the never ending big power/weak chin argument.

True,

but getting clipped by Vitor is a death sentence for pretty much anyone aside from Chuck in his prime, Anderson Silva, and Dan Henderson

he got clipped behind the ear.

that’ll stagger anyone. and if vitor can put you on queer street, it’s just a matter of time before he finishes you.

Especially with his love of donkey punching!
If Mouse Saucy went out and threw hays

He would probably seem like he had more power.

The original contention was that Mousasi is not known for being a "hard puncher"

which I disagree with. Sure, Gegard isn’t known for having 1- hitter quitter punching power, but I would definitely consider him a hard puncher. Just watch his TKO wins over Babalu, Sokodjou, Cyborg Santos♂, and Musashi in K-1. Hell- he broke Makoto Takimoto’s orbital bone with punches in PRIDE, and you don’t do that unless you have significant power.

Like I said- it’s a style issue. While standing, Gegard is more about throwing crisp combos with deadly accuracy; when he gets on top of the opponent, he starts to really open up. His ground and pound is absolutely brutal, and anyone who’s seen how fierce his TKO’s on the ground are wouldn’t question his power.

Matheny loves splitting hairs

Not worth your time.

And apparently you like following me around various posts and criticizing my style...

U CANT FADE ME

You just show up everywhere

Finding the most minute differences between possible interpretations of what used to be thought of as commonly understood terms, like an autistic Socrates. It’s like an M. Night Shyamalan movie, but the opposite. You know how any self-evident phrase will end, with Matheny starting a stupid analysis of nothing.

Yeah, because it's certainly a minute difference between

“Mousasi isn’t a hard puncher” and “Mousasi is a hard puncher.” I’m really splitting hairs there. I can’t believe how pedantic and anal- retentive I am!

You know, I think the source of the problem is that I was under the impression that this was an MMA forum where people came to discuss MMA, and the details of that aforementioned fight sport. Especially coming from a guy with such valuable contributions to the BE community, such as authoring 1 single fanshot claiming ownership over an already existing Diaz Brothers meme.

You’re so cool, dude

Forum?

This isn’t a forum, this is a blog. People don’t come here for discussion, they come for news.

Oh come the fuck on,

again- you’re accusing ME of splitting hairs? The comment section is the same damn thing as a forum. Definition:

A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

Mousasi's punching power aside...

I don’t think Mark was rocked here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6PMNZx3QNo
It looks a lot more like the foot sweep threw him off balance.

How dropped Kyotaro, who is also known for his brick head

Certainly, but he hit Jardine like 200 times and didn't finish him.

He’s no Ray Sefo or Jerome Le Banner was my point.

For sure. I agree that he’s not a power puncher, just wanted to point out a fact.
The whole classification for power punchers and non power punchers is oversimplified.

I do mind clicking the link

But not for Jack Slack. Your posts are always quality, especially for a relative newb to Muay Thai

Bravo sir, another excellent job

I want to watch

Hunt vs Nelson, the battle of insane chins. I think Hunt would KO Nelson though.

I think Nelson would take that to the ground.

Yup

He’s a two trick pony, but he’s not an idiot.

He'd sure try

But I am not as confident he could. I think Hunt can move backwards and counter with power, and Roy is slow. But at least he’d get to use a punch other than than that looping overhand right that is all he can throw against the guys who tower over him height-wise. Here’s me saying that Hunt has improved TDD and can stuff a shot or two by slower HW’s. Of course, as anyone who watched Hunt enter K-1, I am kinda a fanboy, so I admit to my bias. He’s a hard guy not to like if you were introduced through K-1.

Damn you

I came in to post this exact same thing. Unfortunately, Nelson would probably crucifix him. But man, it would be cool to see them slug it out

kongo takes this easily

he is not scared to fight boring (buentello, mitrione, browne) and he will grind this one out. i see him taking hunt down and punching him.

hunt is getting an insane amount of hype for a guy that only lasted like 70 seconds agains mccorckle. sorry k-1/pride fans. kongo all day.

When Kongo failed to get the better of Mitrione on the feet, eating the few significant strikes of the match, he chose to lean against Mitrione on the fence to eek out the third round and pick up a decision, whether Hunt’s counter-wrestling is of the level where he can muscle his way off of the fence will likely decide this fight if Kongo drops the first round.

Just read the full article – I pretty much agree with this. Unless Hunt lands the big shot, he is going to get pushed around, especially in the later rounds.

The thing is..

I think Hunt has more power in tight situations than Mitrione did, both in how he’s set up physically and in his technical skillset. The guy’s stacked like a brick outhouse; shovel hooks and uppercuts in close from him carry a lot of weight. I know Kongo’s thai clinch is dangerous, but with Hunt’s chin I think that just gives Mark opportunities to land a crushing blow/counter once Cheick is in close and immobile. Barry fight notwithstanding, I don’t think Kongo wants to get into a legitimate slugging match with Hunt a la Frye/Takayama.

As others have said before, much of Hunt’s success in K1 wasn’t due to Sefo-level technical skills but rather an iron constitution and the ability to wade through an opponent’s offense and fire back with his own. If it gets down to it, I see Kongo coming out on the losing side of that arrangement.

I am probably alone in this opinion, and concede it readily,

But I feel that when people look at Kongo, physically, they see a lot more than is actually there. He looks like he should be a dominant, fearsome kickboxer, but I see a totally overrated guy who lacks the iron will necessary to achieve the highest levels. I think he rides his physical ability and gifts, and is far from a killer. I think his kickboxing rep is overrated, his fights are disappointing, and while he has a good chance to win, I think Hunt is a serious tough guy with devastating power who is looking to close out his fighting career with a good run. If Pat Barry can light him up, Hunt can turn the lights out.

i think this will be back and forth like the Hunt/ Rothwell

Kongo’s defensive wrestling is not as good as his offensive, and if he gets a takedown don’t be surprised if Hunt takes him down as well. Kongo has the real advantage with the cage, where he likes to hold people and throw knees to the body (or groin). he might have a cardio advantage too. striking should be in Hunt’s advantage though, as Goldie will surely point out 1000 times “either man can end it with one punch”, and i think either fighter can score a takedown on the other. pretty evenly matched; Hunt’s been a bit of a surprise run lately so i’ll go with him.

My money's on Hunt..

via DQ win due to groin strikes. I’m really surprised this hasn’t come back to haunt Cheick “Your Nuts” Kongo before.

Seriously, I think Hunt takes it. He’s a big boy, so that will work against Kongo’s physical strength. It’s not that I think Kongo won’t be able to muscle Hunt around in a clinch, but I don’t see him being able to ragdoll/lock down Hunt with his sub-par offensive wrestling. I also don’t see Kongo KO’ing Hunt through his titanium chin, but I can definitely see Hunt knocking the frenchman out clean.

I could be looking through highlight reel, rose-colored glasses, but unless Kongo tires Hunt out with clinchwork against the cage and that leads to a TKO stoppage or some god-awful submission (Cro Cop/Barry-esque), I just don’t see him taking this one over what’s looked like an improved Mark Hunt.

I can’t wait to be proven wrong, but I see Hunt breaking out the faataupati on Kongo’s disassociated husk by round 2.

may you be right.

would love to see Hunt KO someone in the UFC other than Turschestershire (HW punching bag)

If I had any money I'd bet on Hunt

He’s quite an underdog when he doesn’t deserve to be.

He has knockout power and a great chin where Kongo doesn’t, and he’s been working so much on his takedown defense lately – he made Chris Tuchscherer look like a very average wrestler.

He made Tuscherer look like a stupid wrestler

Which he was. He stood with Hunt and displayed no urgency to take him down.

Hate to be that guy, but its Cheick, not Cheik.

Wordl class striking is what Hunt is going to do to Kongos FAEC come this weekend

If Chris Tuschcherererererer can’t get him down, Kongo couldn’t dream of it.

I'm just going to leave these here...

Yup. Caught coming in.

Kongo is a terrible, terrible boxer.

Did Kongo not return his right fast enough back to his chin?

Watching it over and over again it seemed he had no chance

Lots of stuff - it's impossible to be completely covered.

But it certainly didn’t help that Kongo stands so upright and he didn’t let his shoulder follow the punch to cover his chin. And as you said, recovered his hand slow.

But Hunt timed him really well, the only differences Kongo could have made would have reduced the time he was exposed, but he’d still have been exposed.

Thank you

Love your posts

that is a beautiful counterpunch by Hunt

Kongo walked right into it. for me that was the glaring mistake. going straight forward against a faster, more skilled and powerful puncher.

I have a feeling that I've already seen this fight before it even starts...

it was called Kongo v Buentello. A ground and pound beat down of a one dimensional fighter.

NewsFlash!

Hunt is terrible.

Honestly, your right

people are making Chris Tuscherer out to be the wrestling equivalent to Cain, and Rothwell hasn’t beat a respectable heavyweight in forever.

Kongo, might not be a fan favorite, but he’s smart enough to fight the way he needs to inorder to win..

Kongo via Boring L’n’P

no it's just that Chris is also a D1 NCAA champ or sumat

and if you can stop the takedown there, you can pretty much stop it anywhere

It's not like any wrestling champ transitioned his wrestling to MMA easily.

Honestly Chris Tuschwhatever kinda sucks.

dude his problem is he likes to fight

did you see him get hyped when he was standing with Hunt? Made the mistake of trying to hang in Hunts world. Tuschenecherchesher likes to WAR and he was always fun to watch

and in the Gonzaga fight? He thought he HAD to continue or it was gonna be a loss on his part so he stuck it out after taking some nut shot that put Caceres nut shots to shame

I mean c’mon

it's 2012 Mark Hunt is relevant in the UFC
What is the answer to the question - what is "World Class" Striking?

Great article as always, but perhaps a misleading (although tantalising) title.

Maybe I missed something in the article, but is this question resolved?
It is an over used term, making it even more important to define.

I simply used it as a subtitle to highlight that Kongo does not have the world class striking he is forever credited with.
you said in the long version of this post that Cheick had a 12-12 record with 0 KOs

but if you listen to the video the announcer is saying that Kongo has 12 wins all by KO…at least that’s what I hear after listening a few times.

title caught my eye, had to read it when i saw who it was by
heading over to HKL to finish it

Any world class ability depends on what time in the world it occured. The first jab in caveman history was world class striking but that guy would get torn up today.

Hunt and Kongo are both “world class strikers” in the sense they would last a round in K1, but neither of them are ever going to be a champion in K1, even if Semmy Schilt/Le Banner/Sponge/Aerts/Saki/Feitosa/Overeem/Hoost in Wheelchair/Sakuraba’s ghost breaks 3 of his 5 limbs.

But in the sense that they can strike against each other, they are both world class, both have been hit by strikes that would kill 3 regular people if they stood in a line.

Mir dropped Kongo like he threw a rock at his head, Hunt ate the worst spinning back kick in history when Schilt buckled him in excrutiating fashion.

I can only say that Kongo will win because he is bigger and looks better on a magazine cover. Hunt cant outwrestle him and unlikely to submit from the bottom will likely lose a ranged striking match with clinches converted into takedowns with hunt against the fence.

Hunt was a K-1 champ….

Erm, Hunt was a Champion in K-1

And neither is going to be a champion in K-1 for the same reason no one else is, K-1 no longer exists. Or did you mean that neither would have been a champion in K-1 between Hunt actually being a champion in K-1 and K-1 ceasing to exist?

Reply fail
yeah it was a fail but I got you anyways.

But his line about taking a shot that would kill three people if they stood in a line was great. :)

Scream louder

I cant hear shit

Let me go ahead and just..

put this right here. I called it and couldn’t be happier with how Hunt pulled it off.

Marrrrrrkuuuuuuuuu Huntooooooo for the HW strap in 2013; calling it now! (might be reaching a bit there..)

Bit of a reach, but he made Fedor work before he even knew how to grapple.

I really like that he doesn’t use the jab just the lead hook and carries his lead hand low so that when his opponent shoots he already has the under-hook.

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