Photo by Esther Lin / MMAFighting.com
Early indications have UFC 143 doing better on pay-per-view than many expected heading into the event. The event, which was main evented by an interim welterweight title fight between Carlos Condit and Nick Diaz, appears to have gotten a boost due to the involvement of Georges St. Pierre in the overall "storyline."
At least that's what Dave Meltzer thought in his Wrestling Observer newsletter (subscription required):
Based on preliminary trends, the show looks to have done in the range of 400,000 buys, which is more than I would have predicted. The key seems to be the Prime Time show, with so much talk stemming in particular from episode two, but also episode three. Most of our indicators, from the web site poll, to the newsletter poll, had a higher volume than expected as well. Because the show had no undercard, and really nothing was even promoted hard but the main event, it's clear that Diaz's win over B.J. Penn and his antics involving GSP have made him a draw. The interest in this fight was because people smelled GSP vs. Diaz and saw this as step one in the story. The strongest markets per capita look to have been Edmonton, Las Vegas, Calgary, Albuquerque (Condit's home city), Vancouver, Los Angeles, Seattle, Dallas, Toronto, San Francisco (Diaz is from Northern California), Montreal (GSP's home market since he was to face the winner), Halifax (GSP strong market), Phoenix, San Antonio and San Diego.
So again, it appears that GSP being set to return against the winner helped move the needle a little bit. But there is also something to how engaging of a personality Diaz is and he has really grown as a draw over the past few years between Strikeforce and his move to the UFC.
0 recs | 130 comments
WAR WESTERN CANADA. Two of the top three markets/capita. Not shabby.
T.C. Engel - February 9, 2012 via mobile
Canadian cities almost always dominate the top 10 PPV markets
crazedfan - February 9, 2012
I know. Still pumps me up, because all most people know about Canada is Toronto and Montreal.
T.C. Engel - February 9, 2012 via mobile
which is a shame
because Vancouver is one of the best cities in the world.
wamarsh - February 9, 2012
Yeah I love it,
But Montreal in the spring… it’s like Paris without the snobbery and at half the cost. and the St Laurent River is so gorgeous in the summer. I love the small towns outside of Montreal, St Anisette…
DankNabbot - February 9, 2012
I'll be in Montreal
in late July for a bachelor party. Any tourist sites, bars, “adult establishments” you’d recommend?
wamarsh - February 9, 2012
True that.
Edmonton and Calgary are alright, Saskatoon and Regina don’t really qualify as major cities, but Vancouver is the frickin tits.
T.C. Engel - February 9, 2012
The UFC needs to go to Edmonton.
The WEC event there was a huge success. The local regulators are sensible. Alberta’s economy is very strong. They need to go.
Ideally, though, I’d like to see them go in the winter, because it would be fun to see all the fighters complain about the cold on Twitter.
Llewdor - February 9, 2012
There’s been a lot of negative talk about Edmonton’s commission lately within Canada’s mma community.
zorba - February 9, 2012
Has there?
I know Calgary’s messed up that Kim Couture fight. I hadn’t heard anything bad about Edmonton.
Llewdor - February 9, 2012
well, not so much Calgary – it was that individual ref that mucked it up.
Victor Rodriguez - February 9, 2012
Yeah, the Alberta commissions are terrible.
T.C. Engel - February 9, 2012
Fuck you Dana.
Canada is still the mecca.
sklart - February 9, 2012
Wow, too bad Diaz retired!
IKiIIed007 - February 9, 2012
GSP has that strong a pull
That he’s indirectly affecting cards headlined by two guys battling each other to fight him.
Damn. 400k is not good in the scope of the last few years, but for the last few months that’s not bad at all.
SSreporters - February 9, 2012
For a non-GSP/Jones/Lesnar headlined card...
400k is really good, lol. According to my not so official research, it’s the best number they’ve done since UFC 135, which was Jones/Rampage.
crazedfan - February 9, 2012
UFC 140 and 141 did better numbers
But were headlined by Jones and Brock respectively.
The highest PPV total for a non-GSP/Jones/Lesnar card in 2011 was UFC 126 Silva vs. Belfort.
SSreporters - February 9, 2012
Yeah, thanks for correcting that
I accidentally ignored those two because they were Jones/Lesnar cards I think, lol.
crazedfan - February 9, 2012
That was a Rampage-headlined-card
I doubt that Jones was the real draw there. He’ll get there, but not yet, IMO.
KGNLuc - February 9, 2012
If I recall correctly
135 with Rampage sold around 450k. I believe 141 with Machida sold 480k. Jones already is one of their better draws.
Baby Wads - February 9, 2012
Insanely impressive....
While many of us are more than happy to opine about how much we dislike GSP and his usual style, hundreds of thousands of people will check in and buy a PPV, just to see him.
That makes statements like “GSP is bad for the sport” sound very silly.
SteveevaD - February 9, 2012
Some people will hate no matter what.
pud333 - February 9, 2012
About what I expected considering it was the superbowl weekend and there was a “title” involved, but still not very good. That should cool off those saying “Diaz is a starrrrrrrrrrrrr” for a while.
Shnak - February 9, 2012
pretty underwhelming number
Earl Montclair - February 9, 2012 via iPhone app
How many did 137 do again?
mburtoni - February 9, 2012 via mobile
Penn/Diaz did 280k
According to wikipedia. Take that for what you will.
crazedfan - February 9, 2012
Maybe more people want to watch Condit fight than BJ Penn nowadays?
Shnak - February 9, 2012
Penn isn't a draw anymore on PPV
SSreporters - February 9, 2012
Who is? Serious question. Who are the above-average PPV draws in the UFC nowadays?
Shnak - February 9, 2012
GSP.
And Anderson Silva only if he has another notable opponent or a stacked card.
Machida, too.
Jones isn’t there yet. That’s it.
SSreporters - February 9, 2012
Jones averages close to 500k over his last few fights… that’s above average. Average is around 300k nowadays.
Shnak - February 9, 2012
Jones usually sits around 400-500
GSP has pushed 1 million, as has Lesnar. Silva isn’t a huge draw, he’ll do anywhere from 300-500 usually.
crazedfan - February 9, 2012
That's a bit low
Silva typically draws over 500k
alxn - February 9, 2012
Didn’t his card against Okami in Brazil do like 250k?
Shnak - February 9, 2012
according to http://mmapayout.com/blue-book/pay-per-view/ – 335k
Pyrgz Krum - February 9, 2012
according to mmapayout (http://mmapayout.com/blue-book/pay-per-view/), 335k
Pyrgz Krum - February 9, 2012
Ok. so 335k. Not very good. Then again, it was against Okami, so can’t blame people for not buying that card…
Shnak - February 9, 2012
Silva's highest buyrate, besides his fight against Belfort recently...
was actually against Thales Leites… chew on that one for a moment.
crazedfan - February 9, 2012
Card was in Montreal… and had Liddell in the co-main when nobody knew he was completely done…
Shnak - February 9, 2012
Liddell for sure. Chewed that up and spit it out.
Machiel Van - February 9, 2012
I think Hurricane Irene really affected the buyrate for that card.
Sugel Mendoza - February 9, 2012
Brazil.
Fights abroad (outside the US and Canada) don’t do as well.
Llewdor - February 9, 2012
True. I wonder why that is… I mean, it still played at 10pm EST, didn’t it?
Shnak - February 9, 2012
Doesn’t get the same media coverage as domestic cards, that’s the main reason.
Worldisart - February 9, 2012
Yep. Some major MMA sites save up on cost
And don’t send reporters to the event.
I know Junkie decided on a few London cards not to do play-by-play of prelim fights
SSreporters - February 9, 2012
"Based on preliminary trends"
Meaning “let me throw this number out there and revise it down the line.”
William Wilson - February 9, 2012
Meltzer is usually fairly accurate with his estimates.
Pyrgz Krum - February 9, 2012
Meltzer & Alvarez: “Silva vs. Sonnen easily did a million buys”
Later: “Oh, it did 600,000”
William Wilson - February 9, 2012
That is the ONLY point you have. Show me another PPV estimate that was significantly lower. C’mon. Just one. Meltzer is awesome at it. And not to mention if he wasn’t estimating PPV numbers, we’d have no fucking clue what they’re drawing.
Tim Bernier - February 9, 2012 via mobile
They did not say that “it easily did a million buys.” The Monday after the fight, they said that based on preliminary estimates using methods that were usually accurate, the show looked to have done almost a million buys, but that there wouldn’t be a clear indication until later in the week. They also quoted Dana White as saying that UFC’s early estimates were that it was the most successful Anderson Silva fight of all time (i.e., more than 900,000 buys), so their prediction wasn’t exactly unreasonable.
Heck, you can read the whole explanation here:
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/8/10/1615579/preliminary-estimates-have-ufc-117
Jeff D. - February 9, 2012
Off Topic
Does anyone else have a problem with recent fanposts not showing up on the main page?
castleeb - February 9, 2012
Yeah
Not sure what’s going on there.
Patrick Wyman - February 9, 2012
Yup
Dunno if it has to do with the recent technical issues, or if its a more permanent thing. I hope the former.
Dave Strummer - February 9, 2012
Technical issues
So fanposts are still posted but not in “Recent Fanposts” front page.
SBN took it down.
SSreporters - February 9, 2012
You can see updates on stuff like this here:
http://status.sbnation.com/
Llewdor - February 9, 2012
Yup.
Sweet Scientist - February 9, 2012
Better than expected
taptomyarmbar - February 9, 2012
Nick Diaz is the reason for this #. I bet Condit vs GSP will be lower than 400k. Condit lost more fans than he gained against Diaz.
WAR DIAZ - February 9, 2012
ill eat my shoe
if a gsp card does 400k. I believe gsp coming in after 3 loses could still pull 400k.
Elstriko - February 9, 2012 via Android app
We shall see. GSP is done. He may do good for this PPV, but when he loses or puts on the most boring fight in the history of the ufc the fans will be abandoning him in droves
WAR DIAZ - February 9, 2012
like they abandoned him after his last loss?
Phildo - February 9, 2012
I am pretty sure they did. UFC 74 did 520,000, but I think that had to do with Couture not GSP.
WAR DIAZ - February 9, 2012
yes, and the fights that did between 800k and 1 million since he went into his boring phase I’m sure all came from Dan Hardy, Thiago Silva, and Jake shields.
Phildo - February 9, 2012
LOL - I know you meant Thiago Alves
But a fight with GSP and Thiago Silva would a million!! =P
BrandtShaft! - February 9, 2012
Hell yeah, I’d watch that.
T.C. Engel - February 9, 2012
I love the natural
but a massive ppv drew he has never been. he was a good one but not in the upper echelon
Elstriko - February 9, 2012 via Android app
Yeah,
He was a fighter I appreciated but never liked to watch. His defense was incredible, but I didn’t enjoy all the clinch work as much as I do now (although I still love sweet BJJ and striking tons more, but who doesn’t)
DankNabbot - February 9, 2012
A GSP return fight lower than 400K? Are you smoking the same thing as Diaz?
fbihop - February 9, 2012
you are like psychodiaz
UncleMax - February 9, 2012
What are you smoking and where can I get some?
Sweet Scientist - February 9, 2012
"Nick Diaz is the reason for this #"
by WAR DIAZ
Not sure if trolling..
Ricardo Arguello - February 9, 2012
Trolling?
I guess you disagree. So you think Condit was the reason?
WAR DIAZ - February 9, 2012
the WW title fight was the reason
Ricardo Arguello - February 9, 2012
He also suggested that Condit GSP would be under 400k.
Hahahahahahahahahaha
yeah, unintentional troll right there.
GSP is a top seller of PPV buys, look at the history.
DankNabbot - February 9, 2012
Without even looking
You probably have been on MMA Mania.
SSreporters - February 9, 2012
Wow. I stand corrected.
SSreporters - February 9, 2012
LOL.
pud333 - February 9, 2012
Casuals don't know who Diaz is
Penn-Diaz got less than 300,000 PPV buys.
bmilo - February 9, 2012
I, Tim Bernier, will literally drink my own pee on camera if GSP does lower than 400,000 pay per view buys in any of his next three fights.
Tim Bernier - February 9, 2012 via mobile
Uh-oh
Arca MMA - February 9, 2012 via mobile
damn had to 3 ^ me
the is a app rec for sir
Elstriko - February 9, 2012 via Android app
I wrote that down,
and screenshotted. But it’s a safe bet, IMO.
DankNabbot - February 9, 2012
Lyoto doesn't see what the big deal is.
Also, I now really hope that one of GSP’s next three fights ends up on Fox.
Balrog - February 9, 2012
if your username didn't
but your comment did it for sure!
carmine99 - February 9, 2012
400 000
is still a profitable number for the UFC.
UncleMax - February 9, 2012
The question i have is… what isn’t a profitable number? I’d guess somewhere around 200k?
Pyrgz Krum - February 9, 2012
I think they’d still turn a small profit from 200k buys, since the gate alone should cover fighter pay and a lot of the operating costs.
Patrick Wyman - February 9, 2012
I’d guess closer to 100k buys… 200k is still $5M, plus 1-2M at the gate… that has to cover expenses and fighter pay.
Shnak - February 9, 2012
Disclosed Pay roll = $880,500
Of the Night bonus = 65,000 × 4
Fighter Associated Operating Costs: $1,1450500
Assuming ppvs are standard def $45 PPV Revenue = $1,800,000
Even if they are getting 50% on pay per views, they aren’t covering their fighter payroll with PPV exclusively. Never mind paying for site, fighter transportation, fight related medical care, and other expenses I’m not thinking of.
castleeb - February 9, 2012
“$1,1450500” extra zero there
Machiel Van - February 9, 2012
Also, 400,000x$45 = $18,000,000, so half (I think the UFC actually takes more like 60%, but we’ll stick with half) is $9,000,000. Add gate ($2,300,000) and you have $11,300,000, and that doesn’t include sponsorships.
Machiel Van - February 9, 2012
So that’s at least $10 million+ over the payroll costs.
Machiel Van - February 9, 2012
you’re missing a zero and also a bunch of other revenue sources you aren’t thinking of.
Phildo - February 9, 2012
I know that. Honestly I don’t think these sort of figures are all that useful unless compared event to event.
castleeb - February 9, 2012
Gate, merch, and IP (DVD’s, high-lights) are not factored into the revenues associated with this event. In fact this is rather bare bones.
castleeb - February 9, 2012
Corrected Operating Costs: $1,140,500
castleeb - February 9, 2012
ROY NELSON = PPV BUYS
he’s a draw, brotherjackdude!
les rallizes denudes - February 9, 2012
Oh English Language,
I am glad to see the introduction of the verb: Main Event to your lexicon.
Dude, I am totally main eventing this party!
Awwww man, I thought you were main eventing! But now you’re undercarding? That sucks bro- but hey, that ed hardy t-shirt is hot, it totally matches your sweet heart tattoo with a little scroll that says Mom!
This verb is also seen in the format: co-main eventing, which is much harder to work in to comments about bro-wear- unless it’s Metal Mulisha.
DankNabbot - February 9, 2012
People in the U.S. don’t speak English, we speak ’murican. We make our own words, and also make existing English words do our bidding!
Machiel Van - February 9, 2012
Thank Chael for most of these buys
Afrotikiman - February 9, 2012 via mobile
button fail
President Harding was responsible for the invention of a new word to describe this, it’s called “Bloviating.”
DankNabbot - February 9, 2012
I have a question for self educating
Where do you go to get UFC numbers? I would like to search old UFC sales numbers, where are you all finding this info?
DankNabbot - February 9, 2012
Google.
Shnak - February 9, 2012
Already there
But thanks Shnak, you are always helpful.
DankNabbot - February 9, 2012
No problem. Seriously, that’s where I get all my numbers. Type in “UFC 134 PPV buys”, and you’ll usually get 5-10 hits that say what the number of buys was.
Shnak - February 9, 2012
Dave Meltzer and other prominent journalists have “sources” that feed them approx. PPV buyrates. The gate revenues are announced after each events. The buyrates are never confirmed as 100% correct, but are generally accepted as very close to the actual numbers.
Machiel Van - February 9, 2012
yeah,
so maybe a good fanpost would be a summary or table of ppv numbers? Still looking for a good topic to get my teeth into that hasn’t been done a whole lot, and the one I am working on now is based on my area of study and might not be too interesting to the broad audience and I am having second thoughts about it.
DankNabbot - February 9, 2012
Mmapayout has a page where they track ppv rates event by event going back somewhere near ufc 33
Chris Hall - February 9, 2012 via Android app
thanks!
That’s what I was looking for, and you sir are getting a gold star for awesome.
DankNabbot - February 9, 2012
They end up all over the web. Search “UFC (insert event number) buyrate” and you should find the estimates. It’s been estimated that the UFC gets 50-60% of PPV revenue for PPVs sold through cable/satellite providers, but they get 100% of the revenue for anything sold through UFC.tv. They get approx. $100 million a year from the new FOX deal, and judging that there will have been 8 UFC shows on FOX/FX/Fuel (not including prelim specials) through the first 6 months of the year, that equates to $6.25 million per event. They make undisclosed revenue from sponsors (Anheuser-Busch, Harley Davidson, etc.), merchandising, etc. but industry analysts continue to estimate that 75% of Zuffa’s overall revenue comes from live events/PPV/TV.
Machiel Van - February 9, 2012
Wikipedia
Seriously. Just search for for example “UFC 112” and you’ll find the estimated buyrate there.
Horselover Fat - February 9, 2012
thanks!
DankNabbot - February 9, 2012
where im from, people who fail post-fight drug tests...
get Cesar Gracie to spew a bunch of vague bullshit a few days before the official announcement to make it appear as if im still eligible for a rematch
Gouken - February 9, 2012
Damn, look at that vicious point fighting punch by Condit
SSreporters - February 9, 2012
I’ve always thought “pillow fists” should refer to fighters with KO power, since their fists put their opponents to sleep. Look at Nick’s face there; sure he didn’t get knocked out, but it appears he’s nestling up to the fist for a good nap, like one would do with a pillow.
Machiel Van - February 9, 2012
That's always been my stance too.
I’m sure at some point last year I even made a comment about “pillow fists” putting someone to sleep.
bdoriginal - February 9, 2012
I reckon Diaz has grown into a semi big draw
It will be a crime against mma fans if he really quits due to one decision he doesn’t like
Arca MMA - February 9, 2012 via mobile
More like a crime against maturity.
McEwen - February 9, 2012
minorly off topic but
ooooooooooooo snap
Cory Braiterman - February 9, 2012
Todays going to be an interesting day on BE
I can feel it
Ricardo Arguello - February 9, 2012
Roy Nelson tested positive for crunch berries.
menckenstein - February 9, 2012
Ah, that was fantastic. Here, take a rec.
BeefSupreme - February 9, 2012
this is fucking stupid.
they really need to not say anything until they are ready to name names and suspensions.
If they contact diaz and his camp leaks it, so be it, but the commission should say nothing until it’s official.
Phildo - February 9, 2012
If this is Diaz, its gonna be hilarious.
It was so funny to watch him whine like a little baby about his loss. This might actually top that moment
Clay Davis - February 9, 2012
Condit's face on finding out Diaz tested positive for weed
sideways relevant
Ricardo Arguello - February 9, 2012
fixed
Ricardo Arguello - February 9, 2012
Amazing.
You got my face perfectly
Clay Davis - February 9, 2012
Will rec anything form Undercover Brother
really underrated classic IMO
ElliotMatheny - February 9, 2012
is that kenny G covering the thong song
I usually don’t like the hard stuff.
I herd he got all funk cisco missed
Elstriko - February 9, 2012 via Android app
ElliotMatheny - February 9, 2012
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